Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
hi guys
Im still new to this forum but I have enjoy's my reading lots of info here so fare.I do have a question I hown a 1994 peavey classic 30 thats In great shape and lots of reverb in it, I would like to change the speaker (exploit this amp more) the speaker thats in it now as no writing on it but its black and is a little icepicky.I play country old style (TWANG) and the volume on my amp rarely see the knob passe 4/5 and is mic when played with other friend.which speaker could I use to exploit my sound (+ watts and oms) PLZ ,my instrument are telecaster guitar a american standard and a mod.MIM/W fender noiseless P.U with 4 way switch..I read good things about eminence texas heat also some WSG4 speaker which would suite me better>ho budget is under 100$
thanks in advance
Daniel
Im still new to this forum but I have enjoy's my reading lots of info here so fare.I do have a question I hown a 1994 peavey classic 30 thats In great shape and lots of reverb in it, I would like to change the speaker (exploit this amp more) the speaker thats in it now as no writing on it but its black and is a little icepicky.I play country old style (TWANG) and the volume on my amp rarely see the knob passe 4/5 and is mic when played with other friend.which speaker could I use to exploit my sound (+ watts and oms) PLZ ,my instrument are telecaster guitar a american standard and a mod.MIM/W fender noiseless P.U with 4 way switch..I read good things about eminence texas heat also some WSG4 speaker which would suite me better>ho budget is under 100$
thanks in advance
Daniel
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
WGS sales reps are very helpful and a phone call will get you a recommendation for speaker best suited to your music.
Prices below $100.00 no problemo since WGS sells Factory Direct.
Prices below $100.00 no problemo since WGS sells Factory Direct.
PAF Classic Series Tube Kit.......Created By Classic30inCincy
Majic Mojo Tradename..........Created By Classic30inCincy
Graduate Of Joe Friday / Dragnet School Of Correspondence
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
You might fare well with something like an Eminence GB12 16 Ohm speaker. (Or whatever they are calling it now) It's going to warm things up a bit without losing all of the highs. It's kinda like a higher power Celestion Greenback.
If your budget allows, I would look at something from Weber Speakers. Probably the Blue Dog in 50 or 75 watt, once again in 16 ohms. I'd go for the AlNiCo mag, but the Ceramic version is about $100 cheaper and will give you almost the same tone.
I have a hard time believing it's the speaker, though. I've never heard anyone complain about the Blue Marvel being icepicky. They usually describe it as muddy or lacking in definition.
I think the icepick is more a result of your pickups being too high. I'm assuming that you've got a Tele or something like it. You can believe me whan I say that Teles really benefit from hours of pickup height experimentation. I have a few myself:
If your budget allows, I would look at something from Weber Speakers. Probably the Blue Dog in 50 or 75 watt, once again in 16 ohms. I'd go for the AlNiCo mag, but the Ceramic version is about $100 cheaper and will give you almost the same tone.
I have a hard time believing it's the speaker, though. I've never heard anyone complain about the Blue Marvel being icepicky. They usually describe it as muddy or lacking in definition.
I think the icepick is more a result of your pickups being too high. I'm assuming that you've got a Tele or something like it. You can believe me whan I say that Teles really benefit from hours of pickup height experimentation. I have a few myself:
Last edited by e-merlin on Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Tone is in the fingers, chops are in the woodshed." e-merlin
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
OR......
EQ Settings Too High
Classic 30 equipped with Passive EQ
Dial Back to control high spikey tone
Try This EQ Setting:
Bass @ 7-8
Mid's @ 5.5
Highs @ 6.5-7(Max)
Passive requires dial back to avoid full speed ahead max'd out EQ
After EQ....
Upgrade to PAF Classic 30 Tube Tone Kit
EQ Settings Too High
Classic 30 equipped with Passive EQ
Dial Back to control high spikey tone
Try This EQ Setting:
Bass @ 7-8
Mid's @ 5.5
Highs @ 6.5-7(Max)
Passive requires dial back to avoid full speed ahead max'd out EQ
After EQ....
Upgrade to PAF Classic 30 Tube Tone Kit
PAF Classic Series Tube Kit.......Created By Classic30inCincy
Majic Mojo Tradename..........Created By Classic30inCincy
Graduate Of Joe Friday / Dragnet School Of Correspondence
Doctorate Degree Diplomacy From Royal Order Possum Lodge
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
What tube pack are you currently using? Perhaps you have EH pre-amp tubes. They are
known for having spikey tone. Inexpensive to replace to improve your tone. Numerous recommendations available on forum to improve Classic 30 tone. $50.00 investment in pre-amp tubes can do wonders to amp tone.
known for having spikey tone. Inexpensive to replace to improve your tone. Numerous recommendations available on forum to improve Classic 30 tone. $50.00 investment in pre-amp tubes can do wonders to amp tone.
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
Tube Depot to the rescue with three pre-amp tubes could be the answer.
Tube Depot: http://tubedepot.com
PAF Classic 30 Tubes......
Pre-Amp Tubes:
Position V1 Clean......TungSol 12AX7
Position V2 Overdrive......JJ ECC803S Large Plate
Position V3 Phase Inverter......Sovtek 12AX7LPS Large Plate Spiral Filament
Power Tubes:
Matched Quad Set JJ EL84 (Specify: Early, Normal, or Late Break-Up)
Tube Depot: http://tubedepot.com
PAF Classic 30 Tubes......
Pre-Amp Tubes:
Position V1 Clean......TungSol 12AX7
Position V2 Overdrive......JJ ECC803S Large Plate
Position V3 Phase Inverter......Sovtek 12AX7LPS Large Plate Spiral Filament
Power Tubes:
Matched Quad Set JJ EL84 (Specify: Early, Normal, or Late Break-Up)
PAF Classic Series Tube Kit.......Created By Classic30inCincy
Majic Mojo Tradename..........Created By Classic30inCincy
Graduate Of Joe Friday / Dragnet School Of Correspondence
Doctorate Degree Diplomacy From Royal Order Possum Lodge
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
I've never looked at Tube Depot before but I've seen several referrals to them on the forums.
Just looking at the 12AX7 listings I realized these people are conning people.
Charging extra for balanced sections? If they are not within 2% it is defective and needs to be replaced by the seller. I can guarantee they have no method of measuring balance to even that degree, and likely only use a static DC cathode current reading like the rest of the "matching" brands. No wonder so many people are spending a lot and getting worse sounds than stock amps.
More charges for low microphonics...again, microphonics in a new tube is a defect, not an extra cost feature and should be replaced by the seller. And another charge for a high gain version of the same tube, if it is NOT high mu it is not a 12AX7, or defective and should be replaced with one if someone paid for a 12AX7.
There is so much voodoo going on, pro audio is turning into esoteric hi-fi where science and engineering are tossed out the window and magic and incantations are for sale.
It is a crime to reproduce the names of respected tube makers from that past and sticking it on devices with none of the characteristics in materials or assembly methods, and charging more due solely to the name attached.
Just looking at the plate and grid structures will tell anyone that all those tubes being sold as 12AX7's are not 12AX7's at all. The reason some people say they sound different is that they are not even the same characteristic device. A circuit made for their characteristics can sound just as good as any other combination.
No wonder there are so many bad sounding, less stable, hotrodded rigs out there. They all have a wild mishmash of out of spec tubes in them bought at premium prices.
A lot of people must be begging to be conned to make so many of these hucksters pop up.
Just looking at the 12AX7 listings I realized these people are conning people.
Charging extra for balanced sections? If they are not within 2% it is defective and needs to be replaced by the seller. I can guarantee they have no method of measuring balance to even that degree, and likely only use a static DC cathode current reading like the rest of the "matching" brands. No wonder so many people are spending a lot and getting worse sounds than stock amps.
More charges for low microphonics...again, microphonics in a new tube is a defect, not an extra cost feature and should be replaced by the seller. And another charge for a high gain version of the same tube, if it is NOT high mu it is not a 12AX7, or defective and should be replaced with one if someone paid for a 12AX7.
There is so much voodoo going on, pro audio is turning into esoteric hi-fi where science and engineering are tossed out the window and magic and incantations are for sale.
It is a crime to reproduce the names of respected tube makers from that past and sticking it on devices with none of the characteristics in materials or assembly methods, and charging more due solely to the name attached.
Just looking at the plate and grid structures will tell anyone that all those tubes being sold as 12AX7's are not 12AX7's at all. The reason some people say they sound different is that they are not even the same characteristic device. A circuit made for their characteristics can sound just as good as any other combination.
No wonder there are so many bad sounding, less stable, hotrodded rigs out there. They all have a wild mishmash of out of spec tubes in them bought at premium prices.
A lot of people must be begging to be conned to make so many of these hucksters pop up.
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
Con Artists only if people gullible and order the "options". Seems most people at this forum order standard tubes without the optional testing. Unfortunately we need Internet Suppliers like Tube Depot, Doug's Tubes, Etc. We don't live in Russia or Romania where we can drive to the tube factories.
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
My C-30 had a big time icepicky spike whaen I got it and it was not the speaker. Pre amp tubes are a lot cheaper and will most likely solve the problem. That said, a greenback in your C-30 is a big upgrade. Keep the Blue Marvel for an Ext. cab.
Dalrymple
Dalrymple
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
I still have the stock Blue Marvel, and I did have some problems with some occasional ice pick highs. I could never duplicate the problem, it would just happen, usually playing at higher volumes live.
Agree +1000 with e-merlin, adjust the pick up heights carefully. Most players will have the pickups too close to the strings. True, there is more volume, but it has an adverse effect on the tone and can actually affect the pitch of the strings.
As far as the C30, though, I did two things to calm the ice picks. First, I installed Cincy's PAF tube kit. Second, I installed a Weber Beam Blocker. Only $20. You can simulate what it does by taping something solid about 4 inches in diameter on the outside of your amp with some duct tape. If you don't care what it looks like, you can use that!
To my ears, the tone sounds more consistent, and smoother no matter if I'm standing right in front of the speaker or to the side of it.
Agree +1000 with e-merlin, adjust the pick up heights carefully. Most players will have the pickups too close to the strings. True, there is more volume, but it has an adverse effect on the tone and can actually affect the pitch of the strings.
As far as the C30, though, I did two things to calm the ice picks. First, I installed Cincy's PAF tube kit. Second, I installed a Weber Beam Blocker. Only $20. You can simulate what it does by taping something solid about 4 inches in diameter on the outside of your amp with some duct tape. If you don't care what it looks like, you can use that!
To my ears, the tone sounds more consistent, and smoother no matter if I'm standing right in front of the speaker or to the side of it.
"I'm too old to give up, but too young to rest" - Pete Townshend
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Peavey AmpKit Link
Peavey Classic 30
https://www.youtube.com/user/ctp1daj/
Peavey AmpKit Link
Peavey Classic 30
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
If you do care what your amp looks like, you could remove the speaker and do the same thing on the inside if you want to go that direction.dino_j wrote:
You can simulate what it does by taping something solid about 4 inches in diameter on the outside of your amp with some duct tape. If you don't care what it looks like, you can use that!
"Tone is in the fingers, chops are in the woodshed." e-merlin
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Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
e-merlin wrote:If you do care what your amp looks like, you could remove the speaker and do the same thing on the inside if you want to go that direction.dino_j wrote:
You can simulate what it does by taping something solid about 4 inches in diameter on the outside of your amp with some duct tape. If you don't care what it looks like, you can use that!
Would cardboard work or does if need to be denser? I've been considering some WGS speakers also. WGS recommended the V30 and ET65 combination but not sure yet. I was hoping someone on the forum has tried this combo.
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
I would think it needs to be a bit denser than cardboard. The beam blocker itself is dome shaped (curved inward), and is supposed to diffuse the high frequencies evenly in all directions.
In my opinion, I think it helped, but I think my amp sounds better due to a combination of a) the blocker, b) different tubes and c) Blue Marvel finally getting broken in good.
In my opinion, I think it helped, but I think my amp sounds better due to a combination of a) the blocker, b) different tubes and c) Blue Marvel finally getting broken in good.
"I'm too old to give up, but too young to rest" - Pete Townshend
https://www.youtube.com/user/ctp1daj/
Peavey AmpKit Link
Peavey Classic 30
https://www.youtube.com/user/ctp1daj/
Peavey AmpKit Link
Peavey Classic 30
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
Those Black Speakers as well as the Blue marvels are the same. They're made by Eminence for Peavey. The early Classic series were all black backs. I still have the originals in my 1991 Classic 50 410 too.
" I Play Peavey..............or I DON'T Play!!! "
Charlie
Charlie
Re: Reaccuring Question about speaker choice for a clasic 30
But the attempt is to mislead people, for money....that is either a con or at a minimum fraud. How can you trust anything they say if they are willing to be so casual with facts?CharlieSpleen wrote:Con Artists only if people gullible and order the "options". Seems most people at this forum order standard tubes without the optional testing. Unfortunately we need Internet Suppliers like Tube Depot, Doug's Tubes, Etc. We don't live in Russia or Romania where we can drive to the tube factories.
Actually, most tubes made are available in the US and few other places. No one imports tubes into Russia. Svetlana, the largest tube maker does not have a distributor here and they can't even use their own name they have been building tubes and light bulbs with longer than any other company because New Sensor took it from them in court, and under which name they sell any sort of tube they can get dirt cheap. They certainly are not Svetlana made tubes. There are not many tube amps here so people who have such amps mostly get tubes when they visit Europe. The old Soviet era amps used tubes that are not used in any western amp so there is still a lot of old stock. Combined, tube production is greatest in China and range in quality from worst to best. The big problem is knowing what you are getting when buying the familiar names that are sought after since the new production scattered around is in no way connected to the old standards. There are some honest tube importers who actually do manufacture some of their own tubes in their own factories, Ruby comes to mind.
Since there is such variation between individual tubes with the same name on them, a better way to get a desired sound is to attack the problem directly and adjust the circuit parameters to accommodate the tubes that are available. The diffuser is a perfect example of using smoke and mirrors to solve a preference issue. It certainly appears that hobbyists tweak their amps with add-ons and mods randomly hoping to correct a taste difference. It reminds me of the people tacking on JC Whitney gadgets hoping that only of them actually does give 100 mph as promised and stop the broken rings from burning oil. It might account for so many people unhappy with their sound, any mod is a case of no free lunch, you give up something to get something but usually you do not know what you loose, and attribute the effects as another thing to get the mod and gadget treatment.
If someone is serious about their sound they will determine what the goal is, and where they currently stand, then quantify the current and goals. Without a yardstick you can't tell when you are getting closer in any objective way. A more scientific method would be quicker, more satisfying of the goal and reproducible. The snake oil method pushed by the hucksters is intended to separate the maximum money as possible from the customer and have no measurable proof of results. They are counting on the fact that we can't remember sound characteristics for but a very brief period although we remember our impression of the sound longer. But impressions depend more on variables unrelated to the equipment, and more related to mood, environment, slight differences in volume and the most important one; the person testing providing the feedback mechanism. If the player is playing and listening, his feedback loop includes hearing, and adapting with pressure and technique changes on a micro level. Those playing variables make any player<> evaluator less than worthless. Using a standard reproducible sound source such as re-amping, seems to prove this user in the feedback loop situation is very misleading and inaccurate.
The OP was complaining about spikey sounds. That is usually much more related to playing technique and guitar setup than electronics..unless there is a gross problem like parasitic oscillations which are VERY easy to spot and resolve the proper way, in the defective circuit, not by subbing in low mu or high interelement capacitance tubes. But he is going to attack the problem by seeking a duller electronics sound, that will adversely impact his other sounds. A better solution would be to attack the problem at the source than hoping $250 in blind-fold-dart tosses with mods.
But everyone on the forum tells him ".. its the tubes..." without hearing the problem, or experiencing his technique applied to a piece of music. Are all guitarists this gullible and believing in witchcraft/magic and fairy dust?
Others suggest a diffuser without hearing the issue or even know what the diffuser is even doing or why. I might just be used to more professional players, but this seems just bizarre that so little interest is shown in finding out what the problem really is, just thrown money at it hoping that something camouflages the symptoms. The "I don't know anything about it but I will know it when I hear it" mentality is never going to cut in a competitive world of music.