VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

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DtroitPunk
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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by DtroitPunk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:49 pm

ScottMarlowe wrote:A jumper in the loop is pretty much an old wive's tale. The only reason to do it really is if your internal switch for it is iffy etc and putting a jumper in gets the signal through cleanly. It's right up there with people who think their power cord has a large effect on their sound etc.
Hmm, Lots of people talk about it... Can that many people really be hearing something that isn't there?

I mean "Logically" what you're saying seems right but with technology you really never know. Sometimes something works when you don't really know why...

Anybody else want to weigh in on the jumper loop issue?

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CharlieP
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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by CharlieP » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:03 pm

Time based pedals in loop (delay, chorus, trem. etc). EQ, boost, etc. in the front.
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DtroitPunk
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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by DtroitPunk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:25 pm

ScottMarlowe wrote:A jumper in the loop is pretty much an old wive's tale. The only reason to do it really is if your internal switch for it is iffy etc and putting a jumper in gets the signal through cleanly. It's right up there with people who think their power cord has a large effect on their sound etc.
Did a bot more research and it seems your logic just might be wrong. IDK if I can link to another forum without getting in trouble so I will just "Borrow" some info I found. IF I can/am allowed I will give credit where it is due...

First part was apparently copied from a UG archive... ""Its due to most amps having a buffered effects loop which basically keeps effects from degrading your signal.....

When you plug anything into the effects loop the amp is expecting you to be running a pretty long length of cable into various pedals. There for you would get quite a loss of signal strength. To combat this when you use the effects loop a buffer is engaged which boosts the signal and in most cases it can restore you bit of clarity and fullness along with the signal boost. This is another reason why they say get a pedal with a good buffer and put it in effects chain if you running a pretty good length of cable and multiple effects.

Basically doing this turns the effects loop into a lead boost of sorts as well. Alot of guys with amps with controlable and switchable effects loop use this as a physical lead boost. They dime the levels on the effects loop then kick on the effects loop for a lead boost."

Then on the same thread a person found a quote from youtube that reads ""I just got a used Vavleking 112. THIS TOTALLY WORKS!! Its actually a design flaw that works out in the amps favor. Because there is no Send and Receive blend controls for the effects loop, it sends out a slightly hotter signal when pedals are used to compensate for any clarity and gain lost through your pedal chain. But since you "jump" it with no pedals, it ads a touch more gain and high end clarity to the original signal. I love my little Valveking 112 with this jumper!"

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by ScottMarlowe » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:13 pm

Sorry but that's just not how effects loops usually work. Whether something is plugged in or not the signal doesn't really change. What happens in almost every amp I've ever looked at is that the signal goes to the output jack, and gets connected straight to the input jack. When you plug in, it interrupts this connection and sends it out the jack, and the return jack then gets it back. It's the same circuit electrically speaking.

Yet more "magic juju" from folks who don't work on electronics.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by CharlieP » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:56 pm

I wonder why Fender says in their ads for my Supersonic 60 that the EFX loop can be used as a lead boost? If Fender says that how can I believe you are right while Fender is wrong! While saying that my Fender loop has adjustment pots and that could explain it. I tend to believe also the many users who say they find they obtain lead boost in this way. Those who really use it that way. Greg Koch in his Demo of the Supersonic even states that the EFX loop can be used for lead boost with a jumper.
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DtroitPunk
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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by DtroitPunk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:46 pm

I will try to run some listening tests tomorrow... I suggest we all give it a try and see what we hear...

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by ScottMarlowe » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:39 am

Found the schematic for the Fender Supersonic 60. Guess what? The effects loop has no buffering on it. In fact it looks like it goes through some extra caps when you engage the effects loop. My guess is that he's turning the EFX loop OFF to get the boost from looking at the schematic.

Oops take it back, just figured out the circuit. OK. So the fender supersonic does that. I don't know of a Peavey that does, and most amps don't. And 99% of the time people talk about jumpering their EFX loop they're getting NOTHING for it.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by ScottMarlowe » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:58 am

Looked up the 5150, valveking, and classic circuits. None of them have any kind of buffering. Straight connection broken by a loop. Period. So, on a 5150 what do you get by plugging in a jumper? nothing.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by dalrymple » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:05 am

For many, it is not what you get, it's what you THINK you get! The loop thing actually does have an effect on some amps. The sonic is an active loop with adjustments, so it DEFINITELY boosts the signal a LOT if dialed in to do so.

I used the passive loop on my VK's with a delay pedal. The amp does not need a boost IMHO, it is a beast on its own if dialed in and tubed up right. I never just looped it to see.

But some will swear they hear a big difference, and if they think they do, they do. In this case perception is reality. I no longer own the VK's so I cant experiment, but my guess is the amp does something slightly different tonally using the loop. It definitely has an effect on a C-30 also, despite what you may read on any schematic. Something does change on some amps. These 2 in particular seem to benefit from the loop loop.
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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by ScottMarlowe » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:27 am

I'm willing to be real money you can't hear a difference in a blind AB comparison on a classic 30 or VK.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by DtroitPunk » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:28 pm

ScottMarlowe wrote:I'm willing to be real money you can't hear a difference in a blind AB comparison on a classic 30 or VK.
Well, I wish you were in the Indianapolis area... I can tell you that there absolutely IS something to this. Do you have a VK112? Go test it yourself. Even when not playing you can hear the signal and noise floor increase a bit just by plugging in. I tested my BBE sonic stomp in every configuration imaginable and am getting a HUGE tone by plugging into input one with my Ibanez and then sending the signal out to the BBE and then returning it.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by ScottMarlowe » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:46 pm

DtroitPunk wrote:
ScottMarlowe wrote:I'm willing to be real money you can't hear a difference in a blind AB comparison on a classic 30 or VK.
Well, I wish you were in the Indianapolis area... I can tell you that there absolutely IS something to this. Do you have a VK112? Go test it yourself. Even when not playing you can hear the signal and noise floor increase a bit just by plugging in. I tested my BBE sonic stomp in every configuration imaginable and am getting a HUGE tone by plugging into input one with my Ibanez and then sending the signal out to the BBE and then returning it.
That's NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people who take a 6" jumper cable and jump the EFX out right back itno EFX in. that has no effect on most Peaveys as most Peaveys do not have any form of EFX loop buffering.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by DtroitPunk » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:30 am

ScottMarlowe wrote:
DtroitPunk wrote:
ScottMarlowe wrote:I'm willing to be real money you can't hear a difference in a blind AB comparison on a classic 30 or VK.
Well, I wish you were in the Indianapolis area... I can tell you that there absolutely IS something to this. Do you have a VK112? Go test it yourself. Even when not playing you can hear the signal and noise floor increase a bit just by plugging in. I tested my BBE sonic stomp in every configuration imaginable and am getting a HUGE tone by plugging into input one with my Ibanez and then sending the signal out to the BBE and then returning it.
That's NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people who take a 6" jumper cable and jump the EFX out right back itno EFX in. that has no effect on most Peaveys as most Peaveys do not have any form of EFX loop buffering.
Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear.... YES, it DOES work I promise you. I tested using a spectraflex patch cable I had. Using JUST the cable when you plug it in the send and return you WILL hear a difference in the ambient sound level and while playing.... After seeing this I decided to experiment with the Sonic Stomp in various places in the effects chain and it was HUGE in the effects loop...

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by ScottMarlowe » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:26 pm

DtroitPunk wrote: Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear.... YES, it DOES work I promise you. I tested using a spectraflex patch cable I had. Using JUST the cable when you plug it in the send and return you WILL hear a difference in the ambient sound level and while playing.... After seeing this I decided to experiment with the Sonic Stomp in various places in the effects chain and it was HUGE in the effects loop...
When a double blind ABY test shows it works I'll believe you. Til then I'll choose to believe this is simple selection bias.

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Re: VALVEKING TIPS TRICKS AND MODS

Post by CharlieP » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:55 pm

ScottMarlowe wrote:
DtroitPunk wrote: Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear.... YES, it DOES work I promise you. I tested using a spectraflex patch cable I had. Using JUST the cable when you plug it in the send and return you WILL hear a difference in the ambient sound level and while playing.... After seeing this I decided to experiment with the Sonic Stomp in various places in the effects chain and it was HUGE in the effects loop...
When a double blind ABY test shows it works I'll believe you. Til then I'll choose to believe this is simple selection bias.
When you can't explain why others think different then label it bias. Just like some politicians we know. :lol:
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