a couple of questions for my church sound.

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erick_alcala
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a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by erick_alcala » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:44 pm

Hello,

I just read "How Much Power for my Speakers" by -Don boomer
a recommended article here.

I have two Peavey SP 4 3-Way Dual 15" Speaker Cabinet, and a Mackie ProFX12 Professional Compact Mixer. We are just starting to build up our sound system.

Now I want to buy a Power Amplifier, I was looking at the Peavey PV 2600 Power Amp (Bridge Mode-Mono: 8 Ohms: 1800 Watts RMS).

Do you think its appropriate? (enough?.. not enough?)


Now I have only that and I am going to connect the Piano, Guitar, Vocals , Acoustic Guitar to the mixer. I was also looking for a proper powered monitor, and I don't know if a 100W monitor would be enough for the musicians because we also have a acoustic drum set (note: and plane walls, floor and ceiling with no insulation or bass traps)

any recommendation would be appreciated.

Thanks =)

tmbrandis
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by tmbrandis » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:27 pm

Do you plan to bi-amp the SP4's or run them full range?

Tom in Baltimore
Tom in Baltimore

8 VR218's, 6 QW218's, 6 QW2F's, 2 QW3's, 4 QW1's, 4 QW215's, 18 VR112's, 16 QWmonitors.
14 GPS3500's, 6 CS4080Hz's, 12 CS4000's, 6 CS3000's, 4 GPS2600's, 4 GPS1500's.

Josjor
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by Josjor » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:57 pm

There are a few questions, one of which is from Tom. I'll list a few:
Do you ever plan to bi-amp the SP4's or possibly add subs?
How big is the sanctuary?
How many people are in the congregation?
You said drums are there. What other instruments and how many vocalists?

One huge piece of advice is to get a drum isolation system. These don't have to be uber-expensive. I believe the 6 piece plexi wall that we have at my church cost us about $800.00. I lined the inside, up to about 30", with egg crate foam. This surrounds the front and sides of the drum kit. For the back we modified some used office dividers that are fabric covered. Makes all the difference in the world and helps tremendously to keep stage volumes down.
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mkfs9
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by mkfs9 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:54 am

I would go with a larger amp and use it in stereo. one cab per side at 4 ohms load. Bridging is not a good long term method, and it is much harder on the amp.

Rhino437
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by Rhino437 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:51 am

erick,

This is assuming you have the NEW SP4's. The older models were different wattages. Also, I think this is a 4 ohm cabinet as I believe it was for all SP4 models.

If you just want to use what you have right now then here are the stats and recommendations:

SP4 = 2000 watts program, 4000 watts peak
CS4080HZ = 2040 watts (rms) per channel at 4 ohms
1250 watts per channel at 8 ohms
4080 watts at 8 ohms bridged

I would also recommend some type of sound processor, perhaps:

VSX 48

Peavey does make 2 different sound processors. I would recommend the VSX48 only if you are planning to expand later. If money is tight though then I would go with the VSX26. It will still do the same thing, just with less inputs and outputs.

These processors would allow you to control what type of sound goes through the speakers. Also, if you decided to add more speakers later, this has more capabilities for addon.

PS. I don't think you would be able to use the PV series because, the SP4's are 4 ohm, none of the PV Series Amps do 2000 Watts per side stereo, and the PV series (from what the specs say) cannot do 4 ohms bridged.

Let me know if this helps,
Thanks,
Ryan

erick_alcala
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by erick_alcala » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:18 pm

@JosJor

Do you ever plan to bi-amp the SP4`or add subs?
A: bi-amp is quite expensive.

How big is the Sanctuary?
80ftx30ft

How many Peopple are in the congregation?
150 persons plus visitors

What instruments are there?
Drums, Electric Guitar, Acoustic Guitar, Bass, Piano.

Vocalist only three! plus pulpit person. (main voice).

About drum isolation, we are planning to do this afterward (church does not have enough funds for every detail so our main priority is the power amp , cables and monitors)

@Rhino437
Yes I have the new SP4´s well.. they have at least 5 months of use.. not much ..

And I looked out for your recommendation and is at a reasonable price of 699 used.

Thanks all for your replies, after I purchase I will tell u how it ended up =)

Rhino437
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by Rhino437 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:07 pm

erick,

I really think that the SP4's that you have now is fine. Didn't you say that the church is not that big? Maybe just getting the correct amp for them and adding a processor would fix it. These speakers can get quite loud and have pretty good bass response. If you added subs, (from what you've said before) I think the bass would be to much.

I would just get the correct amplifier for your SP4's and add a VSX 26 or 48. Maybe even an EQ if you would like more control over the sound and to help with feedback issues.

Ryan

erick_alcala
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by erick_alcala » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:20 pm

Rhino437 wrote:erick,

I really think that the SP4's that you have now is fine. Didn't you say that the church is not that big? Maybe just getting the correct amp for them and adding a processor would fix it. These speakers can get quite loud and have pretty good bass response. If you added subs, (from what you've said before) I think the bass would be to much.

I would just get the correct amplifier for your SP4's and add a VSX 26 or 48. Maybe even an EQ if you would like more control over the sound and to help with feedback issues.

Ryan
the price I said was for the power amp u recommended. I plan to keep my SP4´s as I dont have many choices, as for the subs I wont connect any subwooffers, I was sayin that bi-amp is expensive cause I read an article about the correct bi-amping, and it says bi-amping is not just connecting two amps to each speaker..

I dont know any technical stuff so I just read and ask =) .

Whats the sound processor for?

Rhino437
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by Rhino437 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:42 pm

erick,

I don't really think you would need to bi-amp your SP4's (my opinion). This is used more for live shows, clubs, etc... I would choose the VSX 26 for right now. This would give you control over the system and I believe that it has a subharmonic generator built in it. With the subharmonic generator you will be able to lower your bass depth. This will allow you to have lower bass without a sub. I would be careful when using the generator built in this processor because it can damage your speakers. You can manage how much of the subharmonic bass you want to come out.

Any Peavey dealer should have this unit. It would allow you to add a sub to it later on if you decided you wanted one.

Also, I would consider a 31-band EQ with FLS (QF131). This would allow you to see which frequency is causing feedback through the LED lights above each EQ, and be able to turn just that freqency down.

Let me know if this helps,
Ryan

Josjor
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by Josjor » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:50 pm

The VSX does not have a subharmonic processor. Perhaps you are thinking of the Kosmos?

In this instance, unless you choose to biamp, the VSX would be little more than an expensive equalizer. An EQ would be a good addition.
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racertrash
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by racertrash » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:49 pm

Hey erick, If no one has done this, Welcome to the forum!!!!

Joe In KC here, First off, I think I would start looking at the used market for amps, maybe you can find something that will help you get a few other things I think you need for a church.
Control of the existing system will get you a lot more than a brand new shiney amp?


Placement of the current speakers
can help you a lot, so dont just put them up and assume that is good enough, IF you can, placing them in a manner that would aim them into the congregation so that the bodies will soak up the sound and reduce reflections and feedback,so dont point them straight at the back wall.

Unless your congregation is all young, most churches done need to be rock band loud :) God will hear you :wink:


Do you have any Graphic EQ? If you do not,then this is a very good argument for getting a VSX 26 as most of the eq and few other things you should have are in it, Such as some limiting of the entire system, just to name a couple of things, If you cannot afford this item, see if you can get one or two 31 band graphics, have a least one for the FOH and one for the monitors, It will help you more than a new amp :)

By the sound of it, no insult, you sound like a smart guy that does not know to much yet.
You are sure one of the smarter ones because you have asked before you jump, I applaud you!!!!!!!


100 watts for a monitor, can be enough but most of the time it is not, IEM is really the way to go, I address this a little bir further on or at least some ideas :)

Monitors in a church and stage volume. HUGE ISSUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drums for sure, You can dampen the sound of a set a lot by the choice of heads on them, Pinstrips are good but the old evans oil filled will quiet them down a lot. Some basic construction items such as building a short wall in front of the them out of 2 x 4's or 6's and one side could be sheet rock, towards the congregation and the back can be filled with some kind of fire retardent material that will absorb the drums (fiberglass insulation covered with ??), place some plexi glass on top about 2 feet up, wala a 6 ft drum shield for less than 50 bucks maybe 75. And very sturdy if done right, Get the drummer to use the samllest cymbals he or she has.

If they use amps, face them backwards at the players as monitors,

If you are going direct, I know you dont have much money, but One head phone amp, 100 bucks and some ear buds, We have found some Altec ones at wal mart for 25 bucks that really are not to bad and should hold up to one or two days a week if you take care of them. Out of one headphone amp you could drive at least 4 head phones, The singers can do this also if they do not run and jump around too much :) The more auxes you have the better but you can get by one one or two if your clever.


Dont be afraid to look around or contact another church in the area, some of them have some pretty good stuff in the closet, After they did an upgrade :D

fixer
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by fixer » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:05 pm

good advice from (racertrash) :!:
I'm a church soundman :!: :)
and welcome to the best forum
for pro audio on the web 8) :D :)
were all here to learn and help
each other to do our job better :!:
Fixer

if it ain't broke
do'nt fix it

where ever you go, as soon as you get there ,
that's where you'll be.
( R.B. Nelson )

Rhino437
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by Rhino437 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:07 am

Sorry, I was thinking of the drive rack

I like what racertrash said.

racertrash
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by racertrash » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:59 am

One other thing about the IEM thing that a lot of folks dont think about, IF you cannot provide individual mixes to each person, you could still use a wireless unit to provide for the singer, One transmitter and multiple body paks on the same freq, Now if you can give up two aux feeds and use that that to "pan" the voices, they would love it even if they are on the same mix :)

erick_alcala
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Re: a couple of questions for my church sound.

Post by erick_alcala » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:02 am

Thanks for the advice, this forum is of great help.

I bought a QSC RMX 2450 power amp for $350 USD at guitar center to start out with. Now the challenge is to understand the configuration. Reading the manual.

I was looking at the VSX and it is quite expensive, so I am hoping to find it used or at least the two 31 band graphic equalizers. everyday I search local used shops and check only used gear .

about the drums, I am planning on doing that wall. maybe when I finish I will take some pictures.

Thanks for the welcoming :D

God bless all!.
Erick

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