Which Mixer to Buy?

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BrianS
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Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:47 am

My son is in a budding garage band and they have no PA. From what I have read a powered mixer is the way to go. What do I need to get for gigging with an unmiked drummer? I plan to buy some vintage Peavey gear from ebay. What would you recommend?

Thanks
Brian

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SemperFiSound
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by SemperFiSound » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:17 am

Brian,
Not sure what your level of expertise in pro-audio is, please don't take offense if this seems elementary.
- If this PA is for practicing, I would recommend renting a few pieces of gear and trying them before making a decision.
- If this is for performing, I would look again at renting gear or hiring a small local sound company.

Many "budding garage bands" don't make it past a year or so and even a modest investment of $2000 of used gear on eBay may not cover all the needs by the time you look at a powered mixer, microphones, mic cables, modest speakers, tripods for the speakers, speaker cabling, monitors & monitor speaker cabling (or in ear monitors) and lighting.

Please post back with what the PA will be used for, how may channels you think you need, (vocals, guitar, bass, etc), effects(?), practice area or playing area, number of people in a typical target audience, etc.

Lots of variables to consider to give you an informed opinion.
Steve
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Marty McCann
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by Marty McCann » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:25 pm

Every band can benefit from owning a small powered mixer such as the XR-8300/8600 or any of the older XR-600 models.

They can be used as a beginner system to reinforce the vocals, and from then on it can still be used in the rehearsal room. Once a band does begine performing regularly and has all of the necessary gear, it is often a hassle to unload the truck for of equipment for a short rehearsal. Enter the XR-600. If you own one; NEVER sell it!

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SemperFiSound
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by SemperFiSound » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:18 pm

Here's an XR-600...estate sale. Seller doesn't know if it works due to lack of fuse.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PEAVEY-XR-600-MIXER ... 27accf4b68

edit: Here's an XR-600C with more power, but more importantly, it has XLR jacks in the channels.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PEAVEY-XR-600C-400B ... 3%26ps%3D6

Steve
SemperFi Sound; the website
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"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu

BrianS
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:21 am

SemperFiSound wrote:Brian,
Not sure what your level of expertise in pro-audio is, please don't take offense if this seems elementary.
- If this PA is for practicing, I would recommend renting a few pieces of gear and trying them before making a decision.
- If this is for performing, I would look again at renting gear or hiring a small local sound company.

Many "budding garage bands" don't make it past a year or so and even a modest investment of $2000 of used gear on eBay may not cover all the needs by the time you look at a powered mixer, microphones, mic cables, modest speakers, tripods for the speakers, speaker cabling, monitors & monitor speaker cabling (or in ear monitors) and lighting.

Please post back with what the PA will be used for, how may channels you think you need, (vocals, guitar, bass, etc), effects(?), practice area or playing area, number of people in a typical target audience, etc.

Lots of variables to consider to give you an informed opinion.
Steve
Good advice Steve. The band may not be playing after a year but my son will and having some PA equipment might be just the ticket to get him into another band.

I have no experience with PA equipment but I'm thinking for right now they just need a couple of mikes for vocals and one mike for an under powered Viper 30. Yesterday I managed to score an old MP 4 mixer amp. Grossly underpowered with only about 50 watts into an 8 ohm load but its a start and likly good enough for practice. I'll keep my eye out for a decent XR600 mixer.

Right now the band has a gig in January at a friends birthday party. It is their first one so I'm trying to help out with the PA equipment. I would like to get some decent used mikes too and don't know where to start on that one.

The guys don't have a bass player yet. They are playing that cookie monster vocals stuff (no offense, I like some of it).
I appreciate the help guys.

Brian

scottc
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by scottc » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:44 pm

Another piece of advice, You or your son buy the PA gear,bad idea for the band members to chip in to buy PA gear.Personal mics are fine, but other gear,not good

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thunda
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by thunda » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:57 pm

scottc wrote:Another piece of advice, You or your son buy the PA gear,bad idea for the band members to chip in to buy PA gear.Personal mics are fine, but other gear,not good
Excellent piece of advice. When the band breaks up, there will be a problem.

Also, you can usually find a set of three Samson R11 mics for around 69 bucks - great hot nice sounding inexpensive mics with comparable specs to higher end Shure units.

ty
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BrianS
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:24 pm

scottc wrote:Another piece of advice, You or your son buy the PA gear,bad idea for the band members to chip in to buy PA gear.Personal mics are fine, but other gear,not good
Good advice. I planned to just buy it all myself so no worries there.

Brian

BrianS
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:25 pm

thunda wrote:
scottc wrote:Another piece of advice, You or your son buy the PA gear,bad idea for the band members to chip in to buy PA gear.Personal mics are fine, but other gear,not good
Excellent piece of advice. When the band breaks up, there will be a problem.

Also, you can usually find a set of three Samson R11 mics for around 69 bucks - great hot nice sounding inexpensive mics with comparable specs to higher end Shure units.

ty
Just the kind of tip I was looking for.

Thanks
Brian

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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by SemperFiSound » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:20 pm

Brian,
Some inexpensive GREAT sounding mics, (GLS ES-58s) can be had here as well:
http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/mercha ... icrophones

They have a 3 pack for $80. Great sound, practically disposable. I have five -58s and five -57s (I bought the ten pack two years ago) and I use them for any place where I do not know what is going to happen next, or for small bands, first time performers, whenever the mic stand might be knocked over, basically any time I can't justify an SM-58 Beta getting destroyed. 58s on vocals; 57s on instruments, amps and sometimes vocals.

These guys also have inexpensive mic cabling, speaker cabling, etc. Maybe not the absolute best deal in town at any given time, but they are fair, consistent and no hassles to work with.

Happy shopping,
Steve

edit: link to reviews on these mics:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... +ES58/50/1
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"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu

BrianS
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:52 am

Went to the local music store to talk to one of the guys about what I needed to buy. Told him to keep me in mind when any used PA equipment came in. Turns out he had a XR 600C in the store that was in mint condition for $150. It had been used by a dance studio so it sat on a table and was never moved and they only used one channel. I jumped on that. Thanks for the tips guys.

Brian

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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by SemperFiSound » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:54 am

SCORE!Well done, Brian.
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"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu

BrianS
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:54 pm

SemperFiSound wrote:Brian,
Some inexpensive GREAT sounding mics, (GLS ES-58s) can be had here as well:
http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/mercha ... icrophones

They have a 3 pack for $80. Great sound, practically disposable. I have five -58s and five -57s (I bought the ten pack two years ago) and I use them for any place where I do not know what is going to happen next, or for small bands, first time performers, whenever the mic stand might be knocked over, basically any time I can't justify an SM-58 Beta getting destroyed. 58s on vocals; 57s on instruments, amps and sometimes vocals.

These guys also have inexpensive mic cabling, speaker cabling, etc. Maybe not the absolute best deal in town at any given time, but they are fair, consistent and no hassles to work with.

Happy shopping,
Steve

edit: link to reviews on these mics:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... +ES58/50/1
Ended up buying 6 mikes, stands, and assorted cables. Thanks for the tip. Good quality and they sound pretty good. The guys are set up pretty well now. At least well enough for a budding garage band.

Brian

BrianS
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by BrianS » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:55 pm

SemperFiSound wrote:Brian,
Some inexpensive GREAT sounding mics, (GLS ES-58s) can be had here as well:
http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/mercha ... icrophones

They have a 3 pack for $80. Great sound, practically disposable. I have five -58s and five -57s (I bought the ten pack two years ago) and I use them for any place where I do not know what is going to happen next, or for small bands, first time performers, whenever the mic stand might be knocked over, basically any time I can't justify an SM-58 Beta getting destroyed. 58s on vocals; 57s on instruments, amps and sometimes vocals.

These guys also have inexpensive mic cabling, speaker cabling, etc. Maybe not the absolute best deal in town at any given time, but they are fair, consistent and no hassles to work with.

Happy shopping,
Steve

edit: link to reviews on these mics:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... +ES58/50/1
Ended up buying 6 mikes, stands, and assorted cables. Thanks for the tip. Good quality and they sound pretty good. The guys are set up pretty well now. At least well enough for a budding garage band.

Brian

The Rage
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Re: Which Mixer to Buy?

Post by The Rage » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:56 am

What size band are they?. If they're a trio, no less than 12 channels will suffice for a main mixer. The XR600C you bought would make a good monitor amp for gigs..Really intended for an Acoustic duo/trio..3 vocals and maybe 3 inputs. BUT if you're going to do it even basic for a club, you'll need 4 mikes just for the drum kit minimum...One kick, one for the tom and snare, and one you hope for overhead (remember the tall-er than normal boom mic stand) cymbals and the hit-hat...Optimally, a 16 channel board where you can use some of the channels for up to 7 drum mics OR electronic drums...Keyboards require usually two...Try to get a 16 x 4 board..Like a Mackie 1604 VLZ for about 350-400 bux will work.Small and light to carry in a medium road case OR rack. Plus it has 2 separate monitor sends and 2 FX sends (But no built-in fx)..NOW this being a PV-oriented board, I just bought an old school 16 Channel Mark III in a road case from a church sale for 185 bux. It has a built-in reverb "Tank" that was an option back then. Only has 2 subgroups you could run as main instrumental and main vocals. Wish it'd been a PV Mark IV with 4 SUB groups but I know how to use patch cables to rig a couple more main fader groups if need-be..Thing is, you can get these boards for 150 to 300 bux in the road case...

I might get poo-pooed for this BUT even in the short-run, if your son's aspirations are to actually make money, tour the summer, a TRUE 24 channel (not just 24 input) board will be a necessity. Allen and Heath, PV, and Yamaha make great boards that you can find NEW for around a grand. They'll need 2 or 3 way speaker cabinets,2 or 3 monitor cabs, spare speakers and drivers in-case, and you WILL blow them, especially hi-freq drivers., atleast a 100 foot cable snake with stage box, an FX rack with atleast a dual 31 band eq *mains) and a dual 15 band (for monitors), a dual channel compressor limiter/Desser, something like Lexicon stereo fx unit (old school Alesis units are great too and can be found for 20 to 50 bux)..

If you're crafty, you can find very good USED church equipment now..You could get an entire system, mikes, everything for 3 grand. But don't forget HOW are you going to carry all this stuff around?..Gotta' have a van with a tow-behind enclosed trailer..

WHY am I suggesting you get this stuff with your son while you go/build over time?. Things are cheaper now..Even some of the hi-end stuff BUT realize the live club scene in some parts of America is very soft WHILE some of the big states like FLA, NY, Mass, Illionois, and California are bigger than ever. Also, you and your son can RENT yourselves out for local gigs...

Alot of clubs have systems BUT I've found some with setups not fit to be a paging setup in a bus station. . No matter how good your band is, a BAD PA will kill them. Some clubs have a bar tender set the volume on a couple of channels and you have to go with that. Better to find someone who knows the band and can mix/fix things...One club I went into had an excellent system, BUT no one but a gal bartender who could give a rip...I actually talked to the owner and volunteered to help this band out as they were having feedback problems like crazy. I'm no expert BUT I got the vocals and mic'd instrumentals right and "rode" the gain so when a solo came up, it sounded like it should.

Yea, the band is just beginning and the XR600C is a keeper if say your son and another person form a DUO and just want a system they can stick in the back seat with a couple of 10 or 12 inch 2-way cabs, some micro-sized monitors (mike stand mounts) and some guitar pedals..Pretty much the small lounge scene/outside deck background system..

Sorry to run on in the wall-of-text BUT it's like this. As a horn player, I was saddled by a poor quality "new" beginners plastic/ebonite clarinet (CONN)..My grandfather had an old Selmer Signet (mid-range) horn sitting in his closet. He got the thing overhauled (25 bux back then) and gave it to me. I carried that horn all-the-way thru college and made a lamp out of the Conn. I couldv'e gone with a full-fledge Selmer OR LeBlanc BUT the mid-line used, was actually cheaper than the new intro level.

Starting in the middle too, if you need to unload the items, you won't have trouble selling them..

BTW, I'm looking at a 24 channel by 4 subgroup, 3FX send board right now for 50 bux..Has two channels with simple output probs..(The road case is worth more than that).Pair of Yamaha 4115 Cabs with two separate 18 inch Yamaha Subs, a 100 foot cable snake, for 400 bux TOTAL!...AND just about a month ago, I saw a guy who sold a PEAVEY MD-16 mixer, CS-800 amp (400 watts channel into 4 ohms..Indestructable), a pair of PV SP3 cabinets, and some miscellanious cables, WENT for 250 BUX total!..(CraigsList)..Found pair of 12 inch monitor wedges for 50 bux total.

AND, one more thing. Get the Samson Q6 or S11 mikes..I bought two of the Q6's for 9 bux each free ship and an S11 for 99 cents plus 4 bux ship. They are decent mikes. Stay away from the Beyer stuff period though. I don't even like their mic's...My better mics are some AudioTechnica 610's. Got two for 100 bux..Compare favorably (I actually like them better than SM57 Betas)..Normally 139 bux each..Pawn Shop deal.

WELL, I'm sure I'll get lambasted for my recommendations and I hope it's not daunting/dissapointing BUT shoot for medium-sized/medium quality for even a practice system and you'll find that your son and his friend's will LEARN on it better...

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