Midi Mod Vypyr 120 tube combo

[TauTau]

So, since Peavey thought it's sufficient to just have a exclusive Midi connection to the Sanpera Pedal, and I thought different, I modded my 120 tube combo.

I got me lockable 8-pin connectors, and an angled plug. First thing I found out, is that the original socket was exactly the wrong way for me (cable went upwards), so I built a second socket in that mirrored the existing one, just 180° turned. I used a lockable socket that fit the angled plug.

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Fortunately I found in my archives an old midi merger, that I spent some brackets to fix it inside the amp.

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Now for the real hard part: soldering those finicky tiny 8-pin connections . It goes like this:
original 8-pin cable from Sanpera to a 8-pin socket I mounted to some bracket.
From it's soldering side, I connected the 5 standard Midi pins to a standard 5-pin Midi plug. This goes into the mergers IN-1.
I then soldered a cable that has 8 wires to an 8-pin plug (the angled one, that goes into the Vypyr). On the other End I split off the original 5 Midi pins, and put a 5-pin standard Midi plug there. This goes to the mergers OUT. The remaining three wires (those are for voltage to the Sanpera) went to the until now open three remaining pins on the bracket mounted 8-pin connector.

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My Laptop now can connect to the 2nd Midi IN on the merger, and the Vypyr then can receive signals from the Laptop and the Sanperas functionality was fully retained.

Mission accomplished
(If you ask why? Whe have like up to 10 tempo changes in a single song at speeds up to 240bpm, you don't want to tempo-tap the delay at the same time while playing )
We'll see if I dare to let the laptop even switch programs, though I already know that I'll try to switch delay/reverb on/off

Maybe someone else can use this information

[TauTau]

so, everything works fine, besides one little thing: The Expression pedal (at least the Volume pedal).
As soon as I have the merger in between, it's like the pedal works reversed, and only has ~3 steps. I verified a bit:

I recorded the CCs from the Volumepedal directly into a sequencer. I get correct raising and lowering #36 (Foot Pedal LSB) recorded.
I recorded the same, but this time having the signal run through the merger (pedal->merger->merger-out->PC). Exactly the same recording.
When I run the recorded Midi events back from the sequencer to the vypyr it behaves the wrong way as above, like reversed. No matter if I run the recorded signal through the merger or directly into the vypyr.
To me this seems like there's something else going on with the pedals besides CC, maybe some CV through one of the additional pins? I had measured 2 different voltages on pins 6-8 and 7-8....

[lionheart]

Very useful info and I really hope you get the expression pedal fully functional.
Without having a MIDI Merger device I wired up a "Y" Lead with an 8 pin DIN plug to 8 pin and 5 pin plugs at the other end. It works OK for my needs and is dead simple to make.
The 8 pin plug goes to a Sanpera 1 and the 5 pin to a Roland MIDI Synth keyboard which controls all amp parameters flawlessly via 2 exp pedals, joystick and mod wheels and a variety of sliders and rotary encoders.
I'm relatively new to MIDI but have found it really useful as a remote control unit for the Vypyr.
A very interesting article - thanks for posting it.

[TauTau]

cool... maybe I'll try a Y-cable too to compare. The pedal thing drives me crazy, since it makes no real sense When I use the "through" output on the merger, the problem also is gone, so that makes the merger quite suspicious, but on the other hand also the recorded Midi date didn't work correctly, so I have no idea what's going on there

[TauTau]

so, I found some post that ran into a comparable problem, from what I see it's a problem how "intelligent" Midi devices handle CC messages, there's something stripped off. That explains why I had the same result with the merger and the DAW, both seem to do that (probably it's the way keyboards handle stuff like that).
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/i ... c=102792.0

[TauTau]

so, I tried a Y-cable as well... while the function of the volume pedal now is back again, I get all weird issues with preset changes coming off the DAW it seems (I only have one track containing all the tap tempo notes). I even had to make it a huge track covering the whole set of songs, because if there was a "All-notes-off" event, like some DAWs send at the end of an midi item, that also would confuse the Vypyr.
All in all it doesn't look like I'm getting to a setup that's hardened enough for live usage, which makes me not want to use that amp for gigs. Maybe I'll keep it for recording fun, but for real usage I think I'll take a look around at other options. This is the worst Midi implementation I have seen in a long time

[j_fury68]

so, I tried a Y-cable as well... while the function of the volume pedal now is back again, I get all weird issues with preset changes coming off the DAW it seems (I only have one track containing all the tap tempo notes). I even had to make it a huge track covering the whole set of songs, because if there was a "All-notes-off" event, like some DAWs send at the end of an midi item, that also would confuse the Vypyr.
All in all it doesn't look like I'm getting to a setup that's hardened enough for live usage, which makes me not want to use that amp for gigs. Maybe I'll keep it for recording fun, but for real usage I think I'll take a look around at other options. This is the worst Midi implementation I have seen in a long time

I really don't know much about midi, but I know that the Vypyr Pro has independent midi conections on both the amp and the Sanpera Pro. Any Idea if it would do the job?

[TauTau]

I really don't know much about midi, but I know that the Vypyr Pro has independent midi conections on both the amp and the Sanpera Pro. Any Idea if it would do the job?

funny, so they kinda fixed their fault on the later models However, the reason I specifically hunted down the Vypyr 120 were the tubes and volume. I really love the combination of tubes and modelling
Edit: just checked the manual of the Pro, it's the same as with mine, a 8-pin connector that is Sanpera OR Midi. The other Midi connector it has is a Midi out for some special guitar. But at least since they declared the 8-pin connector specifically as "Midi" maybe the made the midi implementation correct this time

[j_fury68]

I really don't know much about midi, but I know that the Vypyr Pro has independent midi conections on both the amp and the Sanpera Pro. Any Idea if it would do the job?

funny, so they kinda fixed their fault on the later models However, the reason I specifically hunted down the Vypyr 120 were the tubes and volume. I really love the combination of tubes and modelling
Edit: just checked the manual of the Pro, it's the same as with mine, a 8-pin connector that is Sanpera OR Midi. The other Midi connector it has is a Midi out for some special guitar. But at least since they declared the 8-pin connector specifically as "Midi" maybe the made the midi implementation correct this time

I believe, at least the 5 pin midi on the back of the amp is for asignable midi channels. Maybe that would help. Also, I am sure the tube 120 is an awesome amp and very loud too. I had the tube 60 and thought it was great. I believe my Pro sounds better though and it has potential of being very loud at 100 watts.

[TauTau]

I believe, at least the 5 pin midi on the back of the amp is for asignable midi channels.

but it's clearly labeled as "Out"... I think especially at high volumes tubes sound different, while transistor amps are better at lower volumes. I currently play a purely virtual setup throuch a PA amp, and while it still sounds good, the tupe amp sounds even better Of course it's possible that the Vypyrs are better at that than my current setup

[TauTau]

so, some more testing, some more results. First, since I soldered another 8-pin connector into the amp, I wouldn't need a Y-cable, since the "Y" is already there with the two connectors. I first thought those random patch changes (they even happened when nothing was running or touched) would be some funky stuff in the air, but it still happened without any external Y-cabling. I then installed LoopBe1 and MidiOX on my computer. It only showed the Note-ON/OFFs sent from the sequencer as expected, patch changes still occured. I also compared the Edirol UM2 Midi out and the Motu 828mk2 Midi out, same result.

I then filtered within MidiOX *everything* but Note-ON, and that seems to solve the patch changes. There still happens one patch change in the end of the set, where the Midi track also ends, it seems Reaper sends something directly to the device that even MidiOX doesn't see. Because of that I made not a lot of 4-Note midi items in reaper, but one huge item with notes at every tempo change, so there's only that one time at the end of the complete set, that I don't need to care for.
Will test further, but until there it looks good. Still want to find out if I can use the merger and have the Vol pedal working. The merger gives me a better feeling than the weird patch-changing Y setup

[TauTau]

so, I reverted back to the solution using the midi-merger. The only weird thing happening there is the volume pedal that doesn't work anymore, but I have a way better feeling without volume pedal than with random patch changes God knows how Peavey implemented that volume pedal, MidiOX shows no difference in data with/without merger, so they obviously did something besides midi.