pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

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pheonix2700
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pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by pheonix2700 » Tue May 17, 2011 11:21 am

I read that 2-15 cabs don;t "play nice" with subs. they need to be "tweaked" please give me more info. I have 2 x pv 215s and 2 x pv118s I use a peavey crossover at 100hz. Is there anything more I can do to get a better sound?

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SemperFiSound
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by SemperFiSound » Tue May 17, 2011 12:45 pm

pheonix,
With the components you have listed, assuming they are properly amplified and EQ'd, that is as good as you are going to get. AND, it should sound quite nicely for an entry level system.

Do you understand the concept of the "quasi-three-way" design of the tops?

Cheers,
Steve
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pheonix2700
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by pheonix2700 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:59 pm

SemperFiSound wrote:pheonix,
With the components you have listed, assuming they are properly amplified and EQ'd, that is as good as you are going to get. AND, it should sound quite nicely for an entry level system.

Do you understand the concept of the "quasi-three-way" design of the tops?

Cheers,
Steve
AAAH that would be a no steve!

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SemperFiSound
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by SemperFiSound » Tue May 17, 2011 2:37 pm

Okey-dokey. The first line in your PV-215 spec sheet reads thusly:
The PV 215 is a quasi three-way
speaker system based on dual 15"
heavy duty woofers and an RX14™
titanium diaphragm dynamic
compression driver mounted on a 60˚
x 40˚ coverage constant-directivity
horn.


If you purchased these, and did not understand the first line in the spec sheet, don't feel alone or duped. It happens....I have a pair of older SP-4s that I bought used and after a few months on this forum I finally figured out what was going on between the two woofers.....

This has been simplified for conceptual understanding. Specific technical details may not be correct.
Okay let's get down to it....
Later on, the sheet tells us that the cabinet's frequency response is 58Hz - 17kHz. It then lists the Crossover Frequency as 2.6 KHz. This is where the crossover has split the signal into "above 2.6kHz" and "below 2.6kHz." The "above" portion, up to 17kHz, goes to that hard working RX14 equipped horn.
The "below" portion down to 57Hz goes to the Top 15" woofer.

What it doesn't tell you is what the bottom 15" woofer is doing. The "below" signal is filtered again and everything above a certain point (~250Hz) is removed and so the bottom woofer is reproducing 57 to ~250Hz and this couples nicely with the top 15" to give you deeper bass.

It's not that subs "don't play nicely" it's just that if your crossover between the bass bins and the PV-215s is set at 100Hz, that bottom woofer is only working from 100-250Hz. Not a very good use of resources, but acoustically stable.

What does happen with your setup, when no external crossover is employed, the unknowing sound guy will go Full Range to the PV-118s (utilizing the built in low pass filter), and then daisy chain the Full Range signal up to the PV-215s. Let's look at what happens then:
PV-118: 49Hz to 180Hz from an 18" cone
PV-215: 57Hz to ~250Hz from the bottom 15" cone
PV-215: 57Hz to 2.6kHz from the top 15" cone

You have three drivers of two different sizes reproducing the same frequencies! NOT goodness.

Besides using an external crossover, the other way to keep all these drivers acoustically happy, is to feed them different signals. Send a Full Range signal to the PV-215s. Then if you are a DJ, use an aural exciter (like a Kosmos) and route a separate Sub signal to the Subs and really get control over the bottom end. If you are doing sound reinforcement for bands, take the kick drum and bass from an Aux send, lower their respective input to the L/R Main Mix, and put the Aux Send through the crossover at ~125Hz and send just those two instruments to the subs, and NOT to the mains. This is a simplified Aux Fed system.

Hope this helps a bit....again, it may not be technically correct to the last detail, but I am hoping you get the idea.
Cheers,
Steve
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"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu

musicman330
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by musicman330 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:10 pm

If you look at the products page and go to pro audio then pv speakers there it says pv215 is a 2 way speaker. No mention of quasi 3way. I thought that was only in sp series speakers. Could be wrong but just read the features part.

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SemperFiSound
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by SemperFiSound » Tue May 17, 2011 3:42 pm

I think ALL Peavey top cabs with two of the same size woofers are quasi three way.
These I know for sure are:
PV-215
SP-4
SP-6
QW-4
Any I am missing any?

I agree that the web site write up is misleading. In many industries, marketing & engineering are seldom in agreement if it's better to be politically correct (boost sales) or technically correct.

'Tis a pity this is prevalent here as well...

Cheers,
Steve
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"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu

TheCowboy
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by TheCowboy » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:35 pm

SemperFiSound wrote:
You have three drivers of two different sizes reproducing the same frequencies! NOT goodness.

Besides using an external crossover, the other way to keep all these drivers acoustically happy, is to feed them different signals. Send a Full Range signal to the PV-215s. Then if you are a DJ, use an aural exciter (like a Kosmos) and route a separate Sub signal to the Subs and really get control over the bottom end. If you are doing sound reinforcement for bands, take the kick drum and bass from an Aux send, lower their respective input to the L/R Main Mix, and put the Aux Send through the crossover at ~125Hz and send just those two instruments to the subs, and NOT to the mains. This is a simplified Aux Fed system.

Hope this helps a bit....again, it may not be technically correct to the last detail, but I am hoping you get the idea.
Cheers,
Steve
I know this is a somewhat old post but I've been searching and reading and tapping into the wisdom of the board.

Anywho, I've got a pair of PV215's and a pair of the PV118's. I power the PV118's with a QSC GX3 and the PV215's with a QSC GX5. Would routing from the mixer to a Kosmos V2 to the GX3 help out with my low end? Unless I'm misunderstanding I can't use the GX3 amps built in crossover because only one channel can be low pass while the other channel outputs everything over 100Hz.

BTW I use the system for playing back recorded material from my laptop connected to a PV 8 USB mixer. Mostly hip hop and more upbeat modern country.

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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by SemperFiSound » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:53 pm

Cowboy,
Welcome to the Forums and I am so glad you are taking the time to learn your system.

The V2 has a 90Hz crossover point. If I had your equipment, here's how I would run it:

Mixer L & R -> Kosmos L & R In (using the Kosmos as the crossover)
Set the "Cut Sub Bass from Mains" button to In
Set the Crossover Disable to Out.

Run the L&R Main Kosmos Out to the GX5 -> PV-215s (700w output into a 700w speaker - be careful)
Run the Kosmos Sub Out to the GX3 Ch 1 XLR input and then run a patch cable from the Ch 1 1/4" Input to the CH 2 1/4" input. This will send the same signals to both sides of the amp. Then to the PV-118s, 300w into 400w cabs which is a good pairing.

On both amps, ensure the crossover is set to Full Range.

This is the best way I can see. Just don't get too excited with the top cabinet volume as the subs may have a hard time keeping up.

Let us know how that works.
Cheers,
Steve
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the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
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rc.alex
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by rc.alex » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:07 pm

SemperFiSound wrote:I think ALL Peavey top cabs with two of the same size woofers are quasi three way.
These I know for sure are:
PV-215
SP-4
SP-6
QW-4
Any I am missing any?
SP-7?
I have no idea if these are even made any more, but I saw a set of (4) SP-7s over SP-218s one time on eBay. Think the guy wanted like $7,000 for the 8 cabinets. Actually that ebay listing was the only reference I've ever seen to the SP-7s.
2 x SP-2, 2 x SP-218, 4 x SP-1545M, 32FX, RQ2318, PV8, RQ200, CS-4000, CPX 3800, CS-1200, VSX-26

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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by SemperFiSound » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:34 pm

SP-7Gs were manufactured from 1999 for a few years. Yes, they were of the quasi-3-way crossover design too. Two 15" BW KADT and a 44XT with a CH-7 horn. 600/1200/2400 watts at 4 Ohms.
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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by Rhino437 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:05 pm

phoenix2700,

I also have 2 of the PV215 and 2 of the PV118. I tried the same thing you tried. For some reason the PV215 just have a totally different sound and when you stick a crossover on them you loose everything. Here's what I did. Don't put a crossover on the PV215's and just crossover the PV118's. The PV215's do better without a crossover on them. Also, even though they say they are a quasi three-way doesn't mean that you can put an amp to highs, mids, and lows in that cabinet. They are all tied to the built-in crossover.

I don't really know why they call them a quasi three-way cabinet because they don't sound like it at all. They are really punchy on the bass end. I even put a Kosmos Pro on mine and turned the quake all the way up. They are still punchy but the Kosmos did help. I wish they still made the Kosmos Pro but they don't anymore. Anyway, try what I did and see if it works for you.

Thanks,
Ryan

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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by runjazztrumpet » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:05 am

Hello,

I realize that this is a pretty old post, however I need some help/clarification.

I have two Peavey 215s, and two 118s. I just purchased a crossover - Behringer Super X Pro CX 3400. How would I go about setting up the Crossover?

The manual for the X-over didn't do me any good. I tried using the high output into the 215, but as expected, I was only getting the highs from the tweeter. If there are three different X-over outputs (highs, mids, lows), and only two inputs from both speakers (one on the pv215, and one on the pv118), how do I manipulate all the X-over outpus?

Much appreciated!!!

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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by Stryker57 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:27 pm

if i was playing recorded music and thats all i had i probably would set the crossover around 80-100 and send the low out to the 118 and the high to the amp running the pv215 probably closer to 80 hz just to let aleast a little freq go to the bottom 15 in the pv215 so its not just dead weight.

make sure you follow the manufactures instructions to operate the xover in 2 way mode.

if its a live band i would use the 118s on an aux feed with just the kicks/bass and run the rest to the mains with the 215s on there full range. i believe the 118s are powered and have there own crossover?????

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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by Babyboy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:22 am

I'm sorry I don't mean to be a jerk and take over your post, I'm having trouble on making my own post. How do you do this? But I really need help here... Thank you...

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Re: pv 215 and pv 118 help!!!

Post by colliedogboy1 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:37 am

To make your own post, go to "Speakers/Enclosures" and click on the tab "New Topic". What is your present setup?

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