PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

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matt-62
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PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:24 am

I have a Peavey PA system consisting of 2 x 2xt tops and 2x 118xt bass enclosures, black widow equipped (newer more rounded shape) 350w rms,700 prog each. I have previously been using this system with a PV2000 amplifier, using the passive crossover built in to the 118XT enclosures with good results, reliability and sound.

However, it has come to my attention that the amplifier may be under powered to get the full potential out of my enclosures. I have read that my amp RMS should be around the prog. value which is 700W per speaker. So I imagine I should have an amp with 700x4 = 2800W RMS at 4ohms? Of course at 4 ohms the PV2000 only delivers 1400W.

My question is what is the best way to improve this system? Am I better to keep using the passive crossover built in to the sub and just spec a single, but more powerful amp?

I am also aware that the PV2000 amplifier also has a crossover built in. I have thought about adding a PV1200 linked out through the PV2000 high out to power the tops and use the PV2000 for the subs thus giving me much more headroom. Or a second PV2000 one powering subs one powering tops would be an equal match 1400/1400.

Or would I be better going down the active route of 2 x more modern amps and an active crossover?

The system is used for dance music.

I look forward to your recommendations

Cheers,

Matt :D

matt-62
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:37 pm

OK so I have done a bit of research..

I am thinking the best option for this is to bi-amp and crossover actively. Thoughts?

Keep the PV2000 and run the 118xt subs from this.
Buy another amp around 500-700rms @4 ohms for the tops
Buy an active crossover

Can anyone recommend a amp for the tops, I'm thinking along the lines of RMX1850HD, PV1500, PV1400.

Will be looking around for second hand to suit my budget.

Many thanks :mrgreen:

jackson
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by jackson » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:37 pm

First, I couldn't find your sub that states 350w cont., only 500w cont. but if it does keep the pv2000 amp for subs. I recommend getting a xover with a low cut filter, 40/50hz. One amp that comes to mind is the IPR 2000. Those SP 2xt cabs have a good db/spl rating 101, more so than your sub @98 so a 300w @ 8ohms amp per side would be good for your top SP2xt cabs. Or you could go the other way and use the 2000 for tops and get a PV 2600/ 550w a side @ 8 ohms. JMHO but those SP 2xt cabs could easily over power your subs given the same wattage to each. It's always been a fair assumption that you will need double the wattage for subs to keep up with tops on or about. I use two 18" subs per top. Each sub gets 500w per. 1000w for sub duty and 700w for the tops. My cabs are rated different than yours though. This would be for dj. Live band I put more to the subs, 725w per. Hope this helps.

matt-62
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:41 pm

Thanks for the reply. I can confirm the sticker on both subs/tops states 350WRMS/700 Prog @ 4 ohms.

So I believe I need to open the units and change the jumper cable to bypass for bi-amp use with active x-over

Next on my shopping list will be the crossover like you say. Would a 2way stereo crossover suffice for this setup, or should I get a loud speaker management unit? I will be sure to enable the low cut for subs. What about the crossover point for these units does anyone know what I should set?

That is interesting about having 2 subs per top. I could always add more at a later date to improve it further. I also have 2 x hisys 1Xt tops I could maybe incorporate somehow for larger gigs. At the moment they will be used as DJ monitors.

I had also read about moving the 2 subs together to gain +3db, and running them as mono, rather that having the separate below each top which is what I have always done.

Thanks for info,
Matt

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Enzo
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by Enzo » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:35 am

I may be confused, but before someone pointed out that your speakers were not up to par, did it sound OK? Did it do what you had wanted it to do?

It just seems to me that if it was OK before, it is still OK now.

matt-62
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:24 pm

Hi, yeah it sounded good, but often I would be running near to clip/limit DDT on the amp. It was actually myself that I had been doing some reading and reliased I could improve it by providing an amp with more headroom and correctly matched to the speakers, further more using an active crossover could provide even further benefits to the system.

jackson
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by jackson » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:45 pm

You don't have to remove/ disconnect the passive cross overs in the subs, I didn't do it to mine. Most are rated at 150hz. With those tops and subs I recommend a cross over frequency @ 100/120 hz. In the end you may want to go to 90hz. What ever sounds best to you. Mine are @ 100hz. Yes by all means get an active cross over. A 2 way stereo/3 way mono would suffice. That's first and formost. I have also read that when doing compressed music/DJ one would stick closer to the continuous power rating of a speaker cab. I do live and DJ that's why I go with my 1.5 rating. 350w x 1.5 = 525w. It's also been stated in a white paper that if your clipping your amps that are in the right power range of your speakers you need more amps and speakers for the gig. Let's say your giving 400w to your speaker. To hear a significant difference in loudness you'll need to give that speaker a 3db increase in power. that would amount to 800w. That's 100w over your program watts. If you hard peak your amp at that wattage doing DJ it might add up to 1600w which would be 200w over your speakers peak rating. Guess what, Smokey Time, and I see that you've stated that you peaking out your amps already. If I were you I'd stick to my equation @ 1.5 times the continuous power and you'll pretty much be safe and lay off the peaks on your mixer and amps. If you feel you don't have enough rig for the gig, get more amps and speakers. That's better than giving your speakers more power and blowing them and paying twice for what you have. Believe me, I know, I learned the hard way.
Yes, keep the two subs together/coupling them. Good advice there. Remember that your tops are rated @ 101db/spl and your subs are rated around 98 db/spl. That's a 3 db difference in sensitivity. So in theory if you give your sub 400w, you'll only have to give your top 200w to match the spl's for both cabs. A matched top and bottom for spl's if you will. That's why I stated 2 subs for every top. There's your 3 db difference. 400w to a top and 400w to each sub, bang, matched system for a total of 1200w's a side. Of course that would be one top and two subs per side.
Hope this helps and you understand what I'm stating, Jackson

jackson
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by jackson » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:12 am

Matt, I looked up those SP2xt cabs and they're rated @ 8 ohms, not 4 ohms and are 300w cont. and 600w prog. could they be different?

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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:52 pm

Hi Jackson,

Thanks for the lengthy reply.

I can't find the spec sheet for my cabs only the archived manuals.

However the plate on the rear says:

2XT 4OHM 350W RMS 700W Prog
118XT 4OHM 350W RMS 700W Prog

SUB http://assets.peavey.com/literature/man ... 0182-2.pdf

TOP http://assets.peavey.com/literature/man ... 000120.pdf

The manual for the sub mentioned about changing the cable inside when bi-amping to bypass the onboard crossover thats where I got the idea.

For the crossover I was thinking this unit?
http://dbxpro.com/en/products/223xs

Or I have also been looking at DSP units, but they may have many functions I don't really need.

This isn't my own pic but this is what version they look like

Image

Cheers,
Matt

jackson
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by jackson » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:19 pm

Matt, I have that cross over, the older black face though, and like it for what it is. I had the Peavey one of similar but it didn't have a 40hz low cut in it so I opted for that one. Sorry for the long post. I thought it could help a little though.
Jackson

matt-62
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:38 pm

Thats great, I'll probely just try the DBX one as it seems simple to setup than a full blown DSP.

As for coupling the subs, should I sum them to mono when doing this or leave as stereo? I think the DBX can do this.

Yeah I saw the DBX has the 40hz cut, it is defiantly something I would be using.

jackson
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by jackson » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:32 pm

Yes you can mono sum the output. I do whether coupling subs or not. You'll then have stereo tops and mono subs. The hardest thing I find to do this though, coupling, is in clubs doing a live band. The easiest is when doing DJ, they're setup in front of my DJ table.

matt-62
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by matt-62 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:59 am

I usually use my subs as the stand for the tops (with the pole between). So in a situation where it wasn't possible to couple the subs/ or more convenient to set up this way, would it still be beneficial to have the subs run as mono?

With the subs summed on the DBX it produces one XLR output, so I presume I would just run one XLR cable from the DBX to my amp CH1 and then daisy chain CH1 out to CH2 in?

Would this be the correct way to wire?

Thanks again

jackson
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by jackson » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:52 pm

Yes, that's the way I do it. Low sum out to channel one input on my amp and use a jumper cable to channel two. Before you go and start buying stuff, have you tried using the xover in your sub and run stereo out of one amp? I would try as many different configurations as you can before you buy anything just to see if you like it as in the above post. An out board xover with another amp would be better though for more control. I even have run my subs stereo. It all depends on how you like to run your system.

Marty McCann
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Re: PV2000 / 2XT / 118XT

Post by Marty McCann » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:24 pm

That model DBX X-Over you listed does NOT appear to have the needed Constant Directivity Horn EQ.

Educate yourself: http://peavey.com/support/technotes/sou ... orn_eq.cfm

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