Question for those using headphone out to PA

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alienux
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Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby alienux » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:05 pm

I actually asked this here before, but something else occurred to me that didn't come up in the previous discussion (which is here: http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32370 )

The thing that I never thought about was how much volume from the master volume on the amp was being used with the headphone out. I won't be able to try with the headphone out again into the DI box/PA for a week or so, but I just can't understand why some say it sounds great through the headphone out to the PA, but mine sounded horrible.

If I recall correctly (it's been about 8 months ago), when I did try the headphone out, I didn't turn the volume up much. The PA volume for my channel was loud enough so I didn't bother, but it just sounded crappy. So I wondered if those of you who are using it this way are using really high volume from the amp through the headphone out so that the signal going to the mixer is much stronger and just using lower volume on the mixer.

I'll try again next time I'm at practice, but just to know for when I get there, when hooking up this way, is it advisable to use pretty high master volume on the Vypyr?

Lactose
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby Lactose » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:58 pm

I have gotten pretty good tones out of the headphone out, with the best results through a tape in to a mixer.

To answer your question, the master volume does have a significant effect on the level coming out of the headphone out. However, you don't really need to go much past 4 or 5 I would say. If you kept the master volume low and then cranked the gain up on the PA system that would explain the crappy sounds you got. Take a pair of headphones and get the sound you want out of that jack, THEN pass it to the PA and have your sound guy balance the output on his side.

Also a bit of warning; After your done playing, turn the master volume all the way down before you shut down the amp. At loader volumes that sucker will send a very loud click/pop through the headphone out.

Let us know how it works out.

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alienux
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby alienux » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:28 am

It will be a week or so before I'm able to try again, but I'll keep that in mind about putting the volume between 4 and 5. I don't remember where I had it last time, but because of how bad it sounded, I must have had it low without realizing it.

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telemaster61
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby telemaster61 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:34 pm

This is a quote from the Owner's Manual for VIP 1
HEaDpHONE/rECOrD Out
We really spent a lot of time making sure the headphone jack was studio quality. Because of that, and with
the proper adapters (not supplied), you can use this output for recording as well as the USB port.
NOtE: When headphones are in use the speaker is muted and master Volume (Item 9) controls headphone level.


You do have to use the master volume as your headphone volume.
I'm currently mic'ing my VIP 2.
You could also build an isolation box for your amp, if you need to mic.
PEAVEY VYPYR VIP 2
Sanpera 1
Triple X combo with 2x12 ext. cab
PEAVEY Powerslide
Image

Dave_LP
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby Dave_LP » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:12 am

Our band recently changed to Shure in ear monitors with belt pack receivers. I'm still micing my Tube 60 with an SM57 and need to get more volume off the stage and into the mains and ear monitors. Trouble is, when I turn down the speaker volume below 1 on the master my sound gets tinny in the PA. It looks like there has to be a certain amount of speaker cone action to get good tone from the mic and that makes sense.

I'm considering trying the USB out to a direct box with USB input. Has anyone tried this and will I get better sound from USB than the headphone out? Is there an advantage using one over the other (headphone vs USB into the PA)?

It's been kind of piece meal moving from stage sound to ear monitors. We still have a grand piano on stage that has a contact mic inside and occasionally we employ a trombone and a trumpet that blow away the sound in the earbuds due to leakage. Acoustic instruments and horns just can't be muted!

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alienux
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby alienux » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:38 am

I'm still going to try running headphone out to PA at our next practice, but I'm still not sold on the idea.

To me, when listening through the headphone out of the VIP 2, the guitar sounds overly processed and very artificial/digital, unlike the sound from the amp speaker which sounds more alive, natural, and real (yes, I realize that headphones aren't going to duplicate the sound of the speaker, but that's not what I'm referring to).

I know this isn't the same as going through a PA, but I took a stereo 1/8" to RCA L/R and plugged it into my home stereo and put the amp on between 5 and 6 for maser volume, then used my stereo to control the volume from there. It sounded better than when the amp was on 1 or 2, but it still sounded extremely artificial and overly digitized to me.

Other people are obviously using the headphone out to a PA, and I'm still going to try with a real PA, but so far I just don't like the sound at all through the headphone out. Maybe it just comes down to opinion on tone where others like it, but I just don't.

Dave_LP wrote:Trouble is, when I turn down the speaker volume below 1 on the master my sound gets tinny in the PA. It looks like there has to be a certain amount of speaker cone action to get good tone from the mic and that makes sense.


That's exactly what I'm dealing with. On stage, it actually sounds decent at that volume coming directly out of the 12" VIP speaker. But the PA sound is just exactly what you described; tinny, thin and weak. I've been told by another guitarist that my stage volume sounds good from the amp, but awful through the PA, but as I've said before, in this situation, turning up the volume for better miking just doesn't work. So, I'm looking into a gobo or other enclosure as was recommended to me in another thread on the subject of miking so that I can try turning it up past 1 on stage.

spinospinelli
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby spinospinelli » Fri May 08, 2015 9:40 am

Just my experience: I'm in a band and we are preparing for our first gig without a professional soundman. I'm the bassist and I'm fine, because my amp has a XLR output and anyway nobody cares much about my sound :) The guitarists instead have a Vypyr amp and an amp of another brand, and are forced to use the headphone out.

First of all: the headphone volume is WAY lower than the loudspeaker output, leaving all controls untouched; I think is some safety measure to preserve valuable young ears. So, to use the headphone out for instance for recording with a soundcard, you have to crank up to 6; if you accidentally unplug the cable in a quiet room, you risk an heart attack...

Second; the sound IS quite different. It appears that the loudspeaker is an important part of the distortion chain; substituting it with a good AKG K-240 headset changes all the sounds (no bass, for instance). The sound you hear is the result of hands+guitar+pickups+preamp+pedals+amp+loudspeaker; change one of these elements and the result will be different. Want another experiment: plug your TV or stereo set into the aux input of the Vypyr! Try! A good guitar driver is bad for news or movies; it is designed to change the sound in a certain way, not to be High-Fidelity.

Third: we plugged the output into the mixer, and the mixer into our PA (two 300W FBT units) and some (but not all) of the magic came back. To be more precise, the guitarist who usually plays using headsets, was desperate; the one who plays with the driver was almost happy. Both did spend a lot of time in the past tweaking the amp to find a set of pleasurable sounds. They will spend some time tweaking with the definitive system.

The sad conclusion, in my opinion, is that you need some time with your PA all for you to re-adjust the vast capabilities of your Vypyr to the characteristics of the PA+venue system.

A negative consequence of this setting is the absence of monitoring volume: you will have to use stage monitors.

This is my experience; but I am more than interested in your own findings, please let me know here,,,

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alienux
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby alienux » Fri May 08, 2015 10:43 am

Well, that was quite awhile back when I was working on trying to get a good sound with the headphone jack. Even with the volume up really high, it was way too harsh and trebly, and really just sounded awful, even with trying different settings on the mixer.

For me, it ended up being better to mic the amp using a SM57 off-axes, and making sure it was loud, but using a plastic shield in front of the amp to reduce stage volume and speaker beaming.

However, even since then, I've switched to using a Line 6 POD HD500X on stage and it has eliminated all of those issues.

rievens10
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Re: Question for those using headphone out to PA

Postby rievens10 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:36 am

Hello
It's got some small downsides, but the reasonably priced Sony MDR-XB50BS is a step up in sound from a lot of inexpensive wireless sports headphones.


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