Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

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Landshark
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by Landshark » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:53 pm

tiger j wrote:I fully expect Peavey to eventually one-up the PRO but will be pissed if they make it obsolete this quickly.
Vypyr Pro II will be abandoned also. :lol:

how exactly do they plan to sell any if they aren't even in Guitar Center stores????

all my local store had was VIP's - they never even heard of the Pro ....

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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by dave1z » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:46 pm

I think the whole "bedroom" modelling amp (don't care if you call it PRO) fad is over. All you have to do is look at the negative publicity that the "new" Line 6 Spider V is getting. Irregardless of the feeling that traditionalists have toward Chinese built offerings, the cheap built plastic amps of today will end up going the way of other toys and people will be looking for more solid/long lasting and reliable equipment in the future.

Que the trolls! :)

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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by wmjones » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:08 pm

I could be wrong but I believe the serious players want a tube version. Something they did not get with the VIP or PRO. The bedroom players and people that only play once a week outside of home or less don't want to pay $600 for a VYPYR PRO plus another $300 for a Sanpera pro when they can get one for $300 or less. ( $425 for a VIP 2 and a SANPERA 2 ) Unless Peavey Gives customers what they want the VIP series just may out live the Pro.
8) HAPPY DAYS:

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Landshark
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by Landshark » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:20 pm

i was happy enough with the tones from my Pro that i sold my XXX 1/2 stack. its a lot of fun to play, and is dynamic and responsive.

cork-sniffers may require tubes, however.

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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by tiger j » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:38 pm

Got my PRO today and played with it a few hours tonight. Yep, I'm selling the VIP 3 and Sanpera II! The build quality of the PRO is so much better that it is hard to believe it is made by same manufacturer as the VIP. Not much plastic at all on this amp. I think the tone is better, but it may simply be the better speaker. As per usual - most of the factory presets are ridiculous.

Sanpera PRO is also a big upgrade from Sanpera II mkII. But I might not have bought one if I had known that Sanpera II would work with the PRO.

Peavey... you need to support this amp and get it on showroom floors!

As for the tube hybrids... the trend seems to be in favor of dumping them. Peavey dumped tubes in Vypyr, Fender dumped tubes with Mustang (as opposed to Cyber Twin and Super Champ,) Line 6 killed the Bogner Spiders... It may be simply to cut costs. It may be that the companies are tired of trying to attract tube-snobs to modelers. I think it is because they don't need tubes to replicate tube tone anymore... which was kind of the point of modeling to begin with.
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by dalrymple » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:39 am

Just saw a Vypro on CL for the first time ever in the bay area. asking $500 for the amp and $400 for the guitar, $800 for both. Since only about 8 of us in the area even know what his amp is, I'll guess further discounts will be needed to move the gear. We'll see, but at least there are a few out there and they are starting to change hands.
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Landshark
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by Landshark » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:09 am

dalrymple wrote:Just saw a Vypro on CL for the first time ever in the bay area. asking $500 for the amp .....

that's not a great deal - i paid $513 for my Vypro, brand new.

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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by pvampmgr » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:49 pm

tiger j wrote:Line 6 keeps chugging out Spiders despite the fact that they have never had many positive reviews in any of its iterations. I think it is because the big music box stores are bound and determined to place one in the hot little hands of every tweener just starting guitar lessons that walks through the doors - the size of their momma's wallet determining the size of the Spider they take home. I personally don't understand why Line 6 doesn't just stick a POD HD500x or, better yet, a Helix inside a combo amp and offer a serious modeling combo.

Fender appears to have abandoned the Mustang... they didn't even upgrade their floor unit to 2.0. This despite that YouTube reviewers were matching Mustang tone to the original amps it is modeling and often the viewers could not distinguish the real deal from the model. No update to Super Champ - I always thought they would intro a "Super Hot Rod Deluxe or DeVille" in the same vein as the Super Champ x-2 but no dice. I guess they "been there done that" with the Cyber Deluxe and Twin. Actually, even as Peavey and Line 6 can attest, it looks like hybrid tube modelers are a thing of the past. I think DSP in solid state is so tonally close to what the hybrid amps can produce (and even the full-tube original amps that are being modeled can produce) that the extra expense and added maintenance problems of incorporating tubes just isn't worth it.

The Johnson Millennium is ancient history (I remember when that amp was the Holy Grail - showing my age!) Marshall Code isn't getting much more traction than the Vypyr PRO. VOX, like Fender, doesn't appear to be upgrading...

So the market is not exactly flooded with competition for Line 6 - especially not in a intermediate to high-end modeler as the Vypyr PRO professes to be. If a PRO is sitting next to the Spider V in every big music box store, I predict they would move units given the initial consensus that the Spider V's tones are a joke. (Peavey might even be able to push out some more VIPs once store noodlers compare them.) I wonder what the incentive is that Line 6 is giving stores to keep their product in stock on showroom floors that Peavey isn't?

But I will be disappointed if Peavey has already abandoned the PRO despite it only being available for one year now and having never really even hit the street market. I fully expect Peavey to eventually one-up the PRO but will be pissed if they make it obsolete this quickly.
OK, first of all, NO we haven't abandoned the Vypyr Pro, we just have to spend our marketing dollars in places where it makes the most sense. Modeling amps in general are a declining category. As a company, Peavey's bread and butter has always and remains things like powered and passive speakers, etc. That said, the beautiful thing about the Vypyr Pro platform is that it was designed to be very easily updated and I'm sure we'll still be using this same platform for some time!

Just curious, where are these online reviews/forum reviews that talk about the Spider V? I haven't gotten to play with one yet and I'm curious what people are saying.
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tiger j
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by tiger j » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:48 pm

Spider V has several video reviews on YouTube now after the initial launch day product advertisement video that was horrible. Lots of chatter on The Gear Page. There seem to be mixed impressions of it insofar as tone. Positive impressions for built-in wireless, aesthetics, and that there is a 2-12 option. Most importantly I would think as far as Peavey should be concerned is that folks are already noodling on Spider Vs in stores whereas there don't appear to be many Vypyr PROs for people to demo anywhere.

Mixed impressions as well for the Marshall CODE, with more favorable reports for the CODE 25 than the CODE 50. There seems to be big commotion about the upcoming BOSS Katana line.

Its my bet that IF big music box store showrooms have a Vypyr PRO 100 and Sanpera PRO to demo alongside the Spider V 120 and Marshall CODE 50 that many customers will choose the Vypyr over the other two.
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by tiger j » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:56 pm

Michael Smith,

If you dare venture an answer given the all-tube flamers may pounce... can you shed light on why all the brands, including Peavey, who offered a hybrid-tube modeler have stopped producing them in favor of solid-state only modelers? Is it that the modeling labs and engineers believe they are achieving high-end imitation of tube amp tone without the need for any actual tubes in the modeler itself? Or is it something more mundane like cost, reliability etc.?
Warmoth Custom-Build Strat (DiMarzio Fast Track/Chopper/Mo'Joe)
Fender American Special Strat
Gretsch Electromatic Pro Jet w/ Bigsby
Fernandes Nomad Deluxe
Peavey Vypyr PRO 100 w/ Sanpera PRO
Fender Mustang GT40
Peavey KB3 w/ TC Helicon Voicelive

pvampmgr
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by pvampmgr » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:03 am

tiger j wrote:Michael Smith,

If you dare venture an answer given the all-tube flamers may pounce... can you shed light on why all the brands, including Peavey, who offered a hybrid-tube modeler have stopped producing them in favor of solid-state only modelers? Is it that the modeling labs and engineers believe they are achieving high-end imitation of tube amp tone without the need for any actual tubes in the modeler itself? Or is it something more mundane like cost, reliability etc.?
It's really simple, the tube models don't sell enough to really justify their existence. I'd say the solid state models outsell the tube models 100:1. It's really no more complicated than that. But keep in mind, Peavey's Transtube sounds and feels like real tube distortion. When I first got to Peavey in 2005, I was that guy, a total tube snob. So, knowing I'd have to sell SS amps I got a red stripe Bandit and took on the road for a few weeks. Truly I was blown away, and became a Transtube believer, not a poser by default. You really do forget you're playing a SS amp.
Michael Smith
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Peavey Electronics

bgh
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by bgh » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:50 am

pvampmgr wrote:
tiger j wrote:Michael Smith,

If you dare venture an answer given the all-tube flamers may pounce... can you shed light on why all the brands, including Peavey, who offered a hybrid-tube modeler have stopped producing them in favor of solid-state only modelers? Is it that the modeling labs and engineers believe they are achieving high-end imitation of tube amp tone without the need for any actual tubes in the modeler itself? Or is it something more mundane like cost, reliability etc.?
It's really simple, the tube models don't sell enough to really justify their existence. I'd say the solid state models outsell the tube models 100:1. It's really no more complicated than that. But keep in mind, Peavey's Transtube sounds and feels like real tube distortion. When I first got to Peavey in 2005, I was that guy, a total tube snob. So, knowing I'd have to sell SS amps I got a red stripe Bandit and took on the road for a few weeks. Truly I was blown away, and became a Transtube believer, not a poser by default. You really do forget you're playing a SS amp.
Michael,

Thanks for your reply. I know you are busy. I appreciate your taking the time to converse with us.

My background with Peavey and Trans-Tube: I have been a long-time supported of Peavey (my first Peavey was a Peavey Musician head and 4X12 - back in the 70s). I have also been a supporter of Trans-Tube. Compared to other technologies on the market, Trans-Tube is far superior.

I am an owner of an original series Vypyr Tube-60. Wonderful, wonderful amp. I gigged with it at church for a number of years. Once I heard it (with someone else playing) and once I played through it, I was sold on the Trans-Tube preamp + valve power section.

The VIP series: To be up front (but not argumentative), I was a disappointed when the VIP series came out - and the original series was left hanging in the wind. There were a number of customers who had original-series Vypyrs and were anxiously awaiting firmware updates for many of the issues that were yet outstanding. I cannot speak for the entire group, but I was bummed when the new series came out and the original series was seemingly abandoned (none of the issues were addressed).

I do understand the points about marketing. But, I think most people (and, to a degree, even Peavey) underestimated just how good that original series was. While it was priced as being almost an entry-level modeler, it was far superior to anything on the market. People seemed to discount just how good it was. They saw the price and the "fangs", and concluded it was "entry level" - when it (and especially the Tube-60 and Tube-120 models) definitely exceeded mere entry-level.

In that context, I totally see what Peavey did with the VIP series. They filled an entry-level (beginner) modeling niche with it. It was the perceived dumping of the original series that bummed me.

The Pro series: When talk of the Vypyr-Pro came out and we were questioned as to what we wanted to see in the new amp, I based my views and responses on my thinking the Pro series was going to be a continuance of the original series (since the original series was so heads and shoulders above everything else on the market), and not a continuance of the VIP series.

I was completely wrong, and disappointment when I realized the Pro series was an iteration of the VIP series. To me, Peavey took a step back when they did that. Even though the amp is labeled "Pro", the people I have talked to associate it much more with the VIP series (which they view as being an entry-level amp) than they do the original series (which they thought was quite good).

PS: This is not to take anything away from the VIP series. If I had not already had an original series amp, I would have probably purchased a VIP series model. But, for someone who already had a Vypyr, the VIP series did not offer enough over and above the original series to warrant me purchasing one. But, I have recommended the VIP series for some of my students.


Tube snob? Circling back to the question to which you were responding, am I a tube snob? It depends on how you define a "snob". To me, a snob is one who looks down on others who do not have the same view as them. A snob would consider their choice to be "inferior". I have no problem with someone who does not make the same gear choices as me. Their preferences are simply not the same as mine. Neither is right, neither is wrong.

I still love my original Vypyr Tube-60. I think it sounds wonderful. I love the response and dynamics that come from the Trans-Tube + valve combination. In comparison, I had a Marshall "valvestate" amp that was the opposite. It had a valve preamp (1 12aX7) and a solid-state power section. The Tube-60 blew it away. I got rid of it, but still have my Peavey.

I understand Peavey and what it did with the Pro series. I simply see where, to me, it could have had a better entry into the marketplace than it did. It seems as if its close association to a perceived entry-level amp has caused some percentage of buyers to discount it and not give it a fair shake.

Conclusion:The original Vpypr series still blows away anything Line 6 has done, most of what Zoom has done, and anything Fender has done in the Mustang series. It is not in the same league as some of the higher end modelers, but it has a rather unique position in the middle tier. The series has been around for a while - and the competitors at that tier of the market still can't touch it.

Thanks for making yourself available and responding. And, thanks for hearing me out.
Lefty guitars: Gibson SG standard (1977)•Gibson LP custom (1979)
Amps : Mesa Boogie Mark IV•Mesa Nomad 45•Mesa TA-30•Vypyr tube 60+Sanpera I
Other: Effectrode Blackbird•Kingsley Jester•AMT SS11-a•Weehbo JCM Ltd.•Zoom G5•J.Coloccia Big Cannoli

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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by tiger j » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:25 pm

I, on the other hand, always questioned why you need a tube-hybrid modeler when the Vypyr already uses TransTube technology/analogue distortion. I still haven't sold my VIP 3/Sanpera II rig yet since receiving my Vypyr PRO/Sanpera PRO rig last week. So I KNOW there is a difference in tone. That difference MAY be attributable only due to upgraded speaker, larger cabinet and fully open back as opposed to soundhole on the VIP to compensate for bass players.

As I have also mentioned, the PRO moniker is definitely appropriate due to the upgrade in physical quality of the combo amp and feature-richness of the new floorboard.

I heard a video discussion of the Spider V that probably applies to Peavey as well although it is now water under the bridge: They were discussing that Line 6 might have seriously done well to drop the "Spider" moniker as it has become synonymous with "entry-level." Maybe Peavey should have dropped the "Vypyr" moniker on the PRO - like "Peavey Transtube PRO 100..." It did seem as though the "Vypyr" moniker was downplayed on the VIP line.

Having said all that, I do think the PRO has more in common with the original Vypyrs in not trying to be a "Variable Instrument Performance" amp and having a gigable build-quality. I have also noticed (primarily with Fender Mustang and the "In The Blues" YouTube videos) that it is SS modeling amps that are fooling people into believing they are the real deal. I have never seen a demonstration where people were fooled by a tube-hybrid modeling amp.
Warmoth Custom-Build Strat (DiMarzio Fast Track/Chopper/Mo'Joe)
Fender American Special Strat
Gretsch Electromatic Pro Jet w/ Bigsby
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Fender Mustang GT40
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by pvampmgr » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:28 pm

Yes, quite frankly the only real thing the Pro has in common with the VIP's, besides the obvious things all the Vypyrs have in common, is the inclusion of the instrument models. You see Line 6 has copied that now to some extent. The models in the Pro are way better. That's why it took so long to get out. I knew it needed a bunch of new and better models after we had shown it and it took a week for each amp. The models are very accurate.
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Landshark
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Re: Pretty Quiet on the Vypyr Pro 100 Front

Post by Landshark » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:06 pm

really loving my Pro.

i like the sound of the 6505 model better than what i got from the real 1/2 stack i had (although new tubes/speakers may have helped? i didnt give it much of a chance before i swapped it for a XXX head, which i really liked).

i was skeptical if the open back of the Pro would bring the chunk, but it certainly does.

suggestions:
for current Vypro - please add the "Crunch" channel of the 3120 - i (and many others) preferred that to the "Ultra" channel
maybe add some ENGL models in the future? (Savage!)

for the next Vypro model, it would be nice if the Resonance and Presence were dedicated knobs - i use them a lot and they can really change the sound.

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