Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

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patriot_m
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Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by patriot_m » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:33 am

Hello Roger or anyone else,

I do appreciate you addressing some issues I am having.

I am having an odd problem with these 2 devices (VYPYR 60 and SANPERA II) using a known, good midi cable (actually tried 3 different cables – 5 ft., and 2 different 10/12 footers).

When the amp is at lower volumes, near the 9 o’clock position on master or lower, the pedal and amp work perfectly. When I have played it at about the 12 o’clock position, the Sanpera pedal seems to “reboot”, as in, the screen changes and does not show what it is supposed to. If I switch modes or presets it will take the changes from the pedal and then it will reset back to the sanpera boot-looking screen. If I press the mode button, it will let me change modes and presets, but, it goes back to what I want to call a boot screen. All of this only at higher volume/power levels.

This has happened at 2 different outdoor venues. I have used the amp indoors at lower volumes without this issue. I am wondering if this is a low mains voltage problem. If I disconnect the pedal, the amp stays on the selected preset and I don’t notice any problems.

Have you heard of this before? Do you have any suggestions on things to try?

Could it be that I am getting a power/voltage sag at these outdoor venues? They have been in cooler, recent weather and the products are shaded from sunlight.

I will have to check to see if the extra vibration is causing a loose connection in the midi females’ sockets to make themselves evident or even check the solder connections on the females themselves.

Maybe a separate question here - Is firmware 1.70 the correct, latest firmware to use on the Vypyr 60? Can I go back to the 1.59 version if desired? Is there any chance that the firmware did not install perfectly? I do get the “light show” and it does all seem to work at lower power settings, so my thought is it went fine.

I have not seen any firmware update for the sanpera (I believe it gets its instructions/functions and processing from the VYPER 60). Does the SANPERA have any factory reset function? Should I have to reset the pedal based on having done the 1.70 firmware install on the Vypyr 60?

This seems like a lot of typing, but, it is a big help if you can get me going again.

Thanks in advance !!

dalrymple
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by dalrymple » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:52 am

Far as I know, 1.59 is the one that is considered the last one that wasnt beta. I seem to remember it is considered the most stable. I'm sure someone who messes with that unstable world of software versions will chime in if I'm wrong. Personally, I'm a "if it works, dont fix it" kind of guy, and too chicken to ever put my amp in peril from a computer glitch.

Those danged 8 pin plugs are about the worst in reality of what undoubtedly seemed like a good idea at the time, I'm sure someone said "What could go wrong?".
Let's see, Idiot bandmates will step on it, both plugged in and disconnected. Pins that worked right last night now suddenly only work in one direction, or not at all. Sound familiar? I've gone through a few over the years.
But I think you may have hit on the right cause with voltage drop situations. If it doesnt do it at lower volumes, and seems "locational" , it probably is. Can you crank it at home or somewhere you know the supply is stable?
Dalrymple

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wmjones
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by wmjones » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:44 am

Unless you use your USB for recording 1.59 is the final and best release. All version above 1.59 are Beta and may not correct all problems. You may also check for vibration problems, Otherwise I concur with "dalrymple".
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patriot_m
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by patriot_m » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:18 pm

I am at version 1.70 - it didn't show as beta on the Peavey site, but, both 1.59 and 1.70 appear to show that they both are only designed for use with the 60 and the 120. I am sure this may not be how the peavey sight is supposed to be perceived, though. The warning is written in red. I would like to know if I can go backward to 1.59. I am an IT person, so I never had any issue with waiting for the firmware updates to finish and also never had a update issue. I have a V 30 and a V 60. I can cross test, but, I can't do this easily at a performance. I will try to see if I have a similar problem using the V 60 with my Sanpera I instead of the II.

I will have to crank up at the house to test. I have a quiet neighborhood, ironically.

Thanks - and still listening.

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Roger Crimm
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by Roger Crimm » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:51 pm

Hi Mark, I got your email. Honestly I have no idea what the issue might be.

Yes, 1.70 is a beta, and I usually recommend against using it. I know it is on the site, but IT doesn't always accept my recommendations....The updates will work with all of the original generation Vypyrs, not just the 60 and 120, but again... And yes, going back to 1.59 shouldn't be a problem.

A voltage drop or sag would have to be pretty severe in my opinion to cause your symptom. I think that if that is the case, you ought to see other evidence in the rest of the system along with what is happening to your amp. I guess it is possible, but is not something I have heard of before.

There is no update or reset for a Sanpera, it is just a midi controller. Since you have tried other cables, and it only happens with the pedal, that would be my prime suspect. Another possibility could be the (footswitch) midi jack on the amp having some issue
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patriot_m
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by patriot_m » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:39 pm

Thanks Roger!

I did get the chance to play loud/er at my home and had very little issue with the pedal and amp. After playing for a while and with no interaction with the pedal, I did notice that the "Sanpera II" wording came up on the top line (only one time through the whole session) of the display as if it were a screen saver or the like. The preset had not changed and after I touch the manual mode button, the preset description and menu came back to normal.

On another note, if I were to put 5881 tubes in the amp, would this be an issue for the bias and would these tubes try to derive too much current from the power supply and support circuitry of the power tube sockets? The only reason I would do this is my notion of better reliability from the 5881's.

I did find it funny to see the different forum users discussing the 12AX7 as if it were a preamp tube and could radically change their sound. This divider/inverter tube would have the very least effect on the overall performance and sound of the amp.

dalrymple
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by dalrymple » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:23 pm

The inverter tube DOES make a difference in the tone. I would describe it as the grit tube. It seems to effect the EQ overall. Not a huge difference, and many wont be able to hear any difference. But it's there.

5881's should pose no problems or threats. But I gotta ask what power tube is more robust than a 6l6? The freaking things last forever. Piercing for eternity!
Dalrymple

patriot_m
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by patriot_m » Thu May 04, 2017 12:48 pm

I found this video on you tube. THAT IS NOT ME PLAYING, btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKr5Eia ... X&index=12

This video shows exactly what issue I was having. I did downgrade from FW 1.70 to 1.59. I did a gig with it, indoors, at a pretty loud volume and I no longer had the issue. I will post again if the issue comes back.

I am thinking of getting a Eminence Marverick 16 ohm (speaker) to put in the combo box. I want to get more of the power tube valve effect at lower volumes. This is a good and inexpensive power soaking speaker. Just to be sure I am thinking correctly - if I add a 16 ohm external speaker, does the internal speaker get switched out/off? I don't believe it does, so I want to run an external 16 OHM at times in conjunction with the internal 16 OHM, via that jack. I know that the parallel circuit gives me 8 OHMS, but does this amp have a switching jack (for switching out the 16 ohm tap and switching in an 8 ohm - single transformer tap) or does it use another additional tap inside (not likely on most AO transformers), or is the jack just a parallel connection? To me the labeling is a bit ambiguous. I will check the schematic to be sure.

barber76
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by barber76 » Thu May 11, 2017 2:07 pm

patriot_m wrote:I did downgrade from FW 1.70 to 1.59.
:? If only I could do it... I unsuccessfully tried to downgrade from 1.66 to 1.59 for two days. Everything goes smooth, the updater reports success, but the amp does not reboot itself, and after switching off/on keeps showing 1.66...

Fastwind
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by Fastwind » Thu May 11, 2017 2:44 pm

Yes, The Original Vypyrs had some trouble with their midi-ports.
I had the Vypyr75, and had to update 21 times before the update took hold.

I would say, keep at it a couple more times. Chances are it'll work evetually...

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wmjones
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by wmjones » Thu May 11, 2017 3:45 pm

barber76 wrote:
patriot_m wrote:I did downgrade from FW 1.70 to 1.59.
:? If only I could do it... I unsuccessfully tried to downgrade from 1.66 to 1.59 for two days. Everything goes smooth, the updater reports success, but the amp does not reboot itself, and after switching off/on keeps showing 1.66...
If you have firmware 1.66 you can use a usb cable (The same cable used for a printer.) To download to 1.59. BTW, I have an M-AUDIO midi cable and it has never failed me.
Last edited by wmjones on Fri May 12, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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barber76
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by barber76 » Fri May 12, 2017 9:57 am

wmjones wrote:
barber76 wrote:
patriot_m wrote:I did downgrade from FW 1.70 to 1.59.
:? If only I could do it... I unsuccessfully tried to downgrade from 1.66 to 1.59 for two days. Everything goes smooth, the updater reports success, but the amp does not reboot itself, and after switching off/on keeps showing 1.66...
If you have firmware 1.66 you can use a usb cable (The same cable used for a printer.) To download to 1.59. BTW, I have an A-AUDIO midi cable and it has never failed me.
My midi cable is fine, m-Audio from the list of compatible tested cables in updater instructions. But yes, I see your point about trying a USB cable, since I'm on 1.66 which enabled USB updates.
Maybe I have to re-think whether I need to downgrade to 1.59 at all. My only two issues are:
- quick decay of sound volume on dirty channels, which I described somewhere on the forum.
- and - really minor thing - shaky tuner behavior. Often it refuses to detect correct note, so I have to strum a few times. And it is not very precise.

I'm absolutely not sure any of these will be fixed after going to 1.59. May play with tube swap first. The problem is, this tube 60 thing is sooo loud, that I have to wait till the weekend to play with red channels and overdrive during daytime.

Hope TS forgives me for getting into his thread...

barber76
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by barber76 » Sun May 14, 2017 9:21 pm

Fastwind: It happened! After about 20 extra attempts... :D Through the USB port, but not sure it mattered, as I unsuccessfully tried it via USB before as well. I immediately identified the successful flash as LEDs started to rotate really fast, as shown on the updater. Usually they circled superslow.

I was so exhausted that didn't even check yet if 1.59 fixes my problem. Most probably not. If that's the case, Vypyr will go on sale and Bandit or VT50 will take its place. I hope to be wrong.

Fastwind
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Re: Vypyer 60 with Sanpera II...Intermittent

Post by Fastwind » Tue May 16, 2017 10:07 am

Great! I hope it solves your problem..

If not, then a Bandit would be a great replacement amp (although with limited effects. Only a reverb I believe...)
If you have the cash, a Vypyr Pro would be even better. It has all the effects and amps you could ever want, and It also has a compressor and gate you can turn off... (so you don't have that problem any longer)...

Good luck!

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